Steam Tug WATTLE

[BanjomanParticipant @banjoman]

Hello Ian,

For a confirmatio of sorts of what John just wrote about the level of noise made by a two-cylinder compound steam engine that can actually be heard outside the engine room (i.e. almost nothing at all), have a look at these two further video fragments from my recent trip with the VIC 32:

**LINK**

and

**LINK**

The former was shot when the Puffer was under way in Loch Craignish, i.e. at her full speed of six knots and with the engine running at around 120 rpm. The clanking noises in the first few seconds of the film are not from the engine, but from the steering chain as the helmsman gives a touch of helm this way or that. As you will see, the sequence starts at the stern, then moves to the port side of the quarterdeck, back around the stern and across to the starboard side of the quarterdeck. At no point is the camera more than four or five metres from either the port or the starboard engine room door, both of which are fully open. Yet it is really only when I actually stick my head (and the camera) through a door and into the actual engine room that the engine noise really becomes a presence!

The second clip was filmed standing on the main hatch in front of the wheelhouse, and as you will find the engine basically cannot be heard at all, although I'm still less than 10 metres away from the open engine room doors! Fair play, though: here she is going through the Crinan Canal, and thus at a much reduced speed: between one and two knots with the engine running at lower revs. Still, you'll notice from the clip that the bird song from the canal banks is rather more audible than the engine.

Obviously, no two ships are exactly the same, and of course the puffer has a rather deep, well-like engine room, with the engine sittig some three or four metres below the door openings, whereas Wattle has an engine room skylight more or less on top of the engine.

I am of coyrse sayingall this to in any way dissuade you from adding a steam engine sound to your model — au contraire! — but just to say that if you are going for maximum realism, as I take it you are, you might want to be careful not to have the sound effects to be "out of scale" as it were … ?!

One sound, though, from the engine room that was very prominent and could be heard a long way away in the VIC 32 was the regular (every five to ten minutes depending on circumstances) rattle of the shovel against the engine room floor, as more oal was put onto the fire in the boiler. This you heard all over the ship, and probably quite a distance off of it, too; however, as the Wattle is oil fired, this is not a sound you will need to reproduce …

/Mattias

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

I'm tempted to say "Quite!". Engine sounds don't always add realism; in the wrong context they can actually take it away.

I can't remember how many calls we used to get about an engine sound for the Bismarck or Titanic, but my reply was either "No – don't be daft" or "Yes – here it is" and then wait in silence for twenty seconds before saying "Would you like to hear it again?". There were folk who wanted the sound of triple diesels for their Perkasa (which had three RR gas turbine engines) or two separate sound units for their lifeboat's diesels – which are run synchronised for 90% of the time anyway. Many of the engine sounds available are recorded inside the engine room rather than from over the transom – which is what you'd hear if you stood next to the boat while it was running. As for "CD quality" – why on earth would you insist on that in a model boat? Finally don't forget that volume isn't proportional to distance away. It's the square of the distance, so an engine sound will only be a quarter as loud at twenty metres as it is at ten. Unless you have big, expensive speakers and a powerful amplifier then the engine sound will be practically inaudible from more than a few yards away.

I'm with Yabbie here. For a model of a steamer you should work on the basis that the engine sound is insignificant and stick to horns, whistles, bells, clanking chains and even gulls.

DM

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Thank you… John, Banjo and Dave …

For all the interesting points you have brought up and it is very educational to me as I have not been round many surface vessels as I was at Bae Barrow and Warton in my latter years before retiring and Subs don't make that much noise compared to the Eurofighter…

Banjo… your footage you have attached is very enlightening to the soft sound outside the engine room, many thanks.

Dave …in your years as the electronic wizard… you must have been biting on a piece of wood, when I started to consider the sound system for the tug boat Wattle….lol

My lack of knowledge on the matter of model boats is out there,,,as they say…

>>Many of the engine sounds available are recorded inside the engine room rather than from over the transom – which is what you'd hear if you stood next to the boat while it was running. As for "CD quality" – why on earth would you insist on that in a model boat? Finally don't forget that volume isn't proportional to distance away. It's the square of the distance, so an engine sound will only be a quarter as loud at twenty metres as it is at ten.<<

So as the Wattle is 1-24 scale …is this like a squeaking wheel barrow at 100yards..?

But thanks again for the time you have spent in enlightening me on the hobby.

Best regards,

Ian

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Ian

I have no idea how loud or otherwise Wattle is/was, and the customer is always right (unless you, as the trader, know otherwise). Tangling with real experts is something I try to avoid!

Dave M

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi Dave…

Well said… thank you…

I guess its a sound system for a steam whistle then.

Looking back over Johns Steam tug Wattle article explains, how slow the prop turns and the wash from this with the steam unit from the funnel will be enough, affect I think..!

Also looking back at the plan feature and pictures of the wattle, John has inserted, I am back to looking for replacement Portholes as my magpie eyes have chosen the wrong items, as the hatch cover is hinged and lifts, so no need to have the portholes with hinges.

Best regards,

Ian

[Yabbie1Participant @yabbie1]

I spotted those hinged portholes Ian, but just didn't have the heart to tell you…

Of possible interest is this short radio broadcast about the Wattle restoration project – a few years old now, it highlights what was an overly optimistic estimate of when the work would be completed:

**LINK**

Also, this up-to-date blog on the restoration may reveal some detail for the modellers. Bear in mind she is being restored as a working passenger vessel, not to the original tug layout. One point I note is that the fairing or bulge around the stern tube each side of the keel is much larger than I thought.

**LINK**

Yabbie 1

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi John..

You are a kind heart, but I am so please I realised the error before super gluing the hinge porthole covers into position.

The two links are great, thanks for them.

on one of the pictures about number 15, I think, it shows a chap holding a brass hinged port hole… lol

This will be the third attempt to match the porthole covers on the hatch and up to now I have not seen anything other than some white metal fittings.

I will have a go at brass painting and glazing to see what they will look like.

Best regards,

Ian

[Yabbie1Participant @yabbie1]

Ian, I suspect that porthole is for the hull, and probably not original, as some of these had been plated over/lost. I used flanged brass portholes such as Cornwall Model Boats sell, by RB Model Fittings I think. Yabbie 1.

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi John…

I have seen the portholes you mention, at the moment I was thinking of trying these…( see pic),

to see if they look ok as I have them to hand, what do you think?

Edited By IAN_I on 05/08/2015 20:38:20

[Yabbie1Participant @yabbie1]

The thin brass portholes are much closer in appearance and finish to the original Ian – your choice. Yabbie 1.

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi John..

You are so right… it needs to have the bolt holes round the edge,

Will send off for them, re catalogue info..

Best regards,

Ian

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Although I could not find the 8 bolt hole portholes, I think this looks more in line with the model.

I now think the colour on the engine house is not orange enough, with the revelle 85, so will look for a better match.

[michael wilkinsParticipant @michaelwilkins74576]

Ah! thats more like it excelent! aye! wish I could just do a bit now and again but I would go crazy if I didnt have soething to do then of course the impending thing about time I have left to do all the things I want to do I have a list of boats I want to build 1/ theswift pbf which I have plans for this will be made from depron foam, then Johns coastguard boat that loks like almost the same building proccess as the Wattle and building that as my first boat r/c that size has taught me a lot so that the swift pcf one next will be better, in the meanwhile I have built a footie Tamar lifeboat just having trouble getting everything squished into it particularly the rudder to servo not much room inside her,

well happy you managed to get the new portholes they look 10 times better,

take it easy then

mick

[michael wilkinsParticipant @michaelwilkins74576]

quick fore I forget again! the colour I have used for the engine house is Revell 85 mat

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi Mick.. Good to hear from you ..hope you are ok and it sounds like you are keeping yourself very busy.. with all your model builds. I have some pictures for you to have a look at…

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

A close up of the colour I have tried… I used the revel 85 mat but it didn't look any ware near the magazine pictures, so have added a little Tamiya TS12.. orange

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

[michael wilkinsParticipant @michaelwilkins74576]

Hi! this is much better now with the new portholes and the colour change looks spot on, mine is a little more on the browner side, I am waiting for a nice calm sunny day to put her on the loch I think it will be Crinan ferry there is a nice bay there that is only knee deep at high tide and not much of a curent there the river Add runs far over the other side of the bay, there is a launching slip as well so welly's on next fine day LOL!!

all the best

mick

[michael wilkinsParticipant @michaelwilkins74576]

I think these colours from revell dont stay the same as if you look at mine it is revell85 and its completely different to the first pics of yours! it looks very pale.

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

Hi Mick…Look forward to seeing a picture of the launch, hope all goes well. I have a few more pictures to up load of the inner side of the upper deck and I think this second tin of Revell85 mat is different again. first pic is of the card liner and resin seal…

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

[IAN_IParticipant @ian_i]

This is the same revel 85 mat, but a new tin and it looks different…

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