Scuffy and the Compass

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

A new idea. To have model boat to lock onto a bearing and stay fixed to it. How many times does your boat veer off course.. Mainly when the captain has gone to sleep, or is talking to his crew. (Read here mates with other boats). This little video is the start of the process and you will be surprised how inexpensive the little addition is.

Edited By John.Redearth on 27/11/2015 20:27:50

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

How to enable your boat to hold to a bearing

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

Funny thing is that I have been talking to the editor of Model Boat Magazine about doing an article on arduino and they are not in the least interested. For me it is a pain because I would like to get this info out and the people who read the forums are very few in comparison to those who receive emails from the magazine writers.

I actually think the issues are two fold: One is that the ‘off the shelf’ suppliers are not interested in having non traditional methods out there, and the second is that the older generation who buy the mag are not interested. This latter issue is a problem for all hobby mags into the future. Young people will want to control functions on their boats using Iphones, and all will want GPS. The traditional modeler will gradually fade away. And, I am not even mentioning 3d printing. The world is changing and it is a challenge for everyone.

Does this ring true??

[mike farrellParticipant @mikefarrell21522]

Hi John I,ve taken a look at your site and it appears to be an advertisement for your ideas for sale .

This site is used by builders who freely give their knowledge to all . they will enter discussion and argue points which will normally come to a sensible conclusion.

From your given information I cannot see when I would set my models on a secure course as I don't, have a lake big enough to make use of your idea ,I love to keep my models from running into the next modeller sailing his precious model . I do that by use of my two thumbsMichael

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

Hi Mike and yes I do have a commercial site but all the arduino stuff is completely free and available for anyone to take. The commercial side is about scratchbuilding techniques, including trains.. and I think I make it clear that not everyone wants to set a model on a course. It's just that when you start with this stuff it opens up a whole new world of doing many other things.

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

I can see that things like the arduino have a lot of potential use in providing features on larger model boats, but without a huge body of water to sail on, auto course holding isn't one that is likely to attract a big user base. Without adding GPS capability, holding a heading is not the same as keeping to a course. The there are the other minor considerations of holding a course into trouble – out of sight, into reeds on an island, into the club commodore's favorite boat etc.

A big part of sailing model boats is that you get to sail model boats. This requires attention. If there is a need to talk about them while not paying attention, they can be either parked or retrieved.

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

I started the 'holding a course' idea becuase i have a camera boat, and when it sits on a course I can run other boats next to it. It is far better than having second perosn as it seems no-one can do it right. The arduino also runs two independent cameras off one channel.

The idea really started when I designed a complete sketch to run a submarine. The depth keeping routine runs along similar lines to the 'holding a course' but the other dimension, and uses a pressure gauge. THe 'holding a course' idea is just a novelty and introduction to endless possibilities.

For example I intend to use it to control twin props from one channel (because if I use my transmitter Iose a channel). etc etc etc

And.. it is all so cheap. Ok is that enough.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

the people who read the forums are very few in comparison to those who receive emails from the magazine writers.

I'm really not sure what you're driving at here, John. Who do you mean by "the magazine writers" and to whom do you imagine they are sending these countless E-Mails? I've written one or two articles for Model Boats mag but I'm not inundated with E-Mails from Paul Freshney or Barrie Stevens and I certainly send out few myself, other than by way of reply to other folk. I don't suppose that Paul or Ashley are much different.

I looked into Arduino a while ago and concluded that it might have model boat applications in something like a crane barge or aircraft carrier where many complex working functions are required. As a guy whose boats seldom use more than steering and motor controls I decided that the applications for my own models weren't worth the intellectual investment in Arduino.

If someone wants to use a mobile phone to operate a model boat then I reserve the right to boil eggs in a toaster…

Dave M

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 03/12/2015 10:45:04

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Like Dave I have written articles for the magazine and I haven't been drowned in emails from Paul Freshney in point of fact the only emails that I have exchanged with Paul have been general chit chat in much the same way that I converse with other model boating friends.

As I understand it Paul has many articles submitted for possible publication and so doesn't have to ask, on the flip side I wouldn't dream of submitting an article that promoted my design and drawing service as this would not only be in poor taste but would damage a valuable personal and professional relationship.

Technology is changing but the model boater isn't, we adapt to new equipment but don't want the control and interaction with the model taking away, this was true of model boating when I was younger and is still true of the new generation of modellers.

Incidentally I have looked at Arduino for possiable inclusion in my upcoming large scale QE Aircraft Carrier but concluded that it was clumsy and rather limited in its applications.

Paul

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

Wow.. OK I give in.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Would this be a suitable point to promote my design and drawing service?

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

Posted by Paul T on 04/12/2015 11:40:10:

Would this be a suitable point to promote my design and drawing service?

You just did, Paul.

DM

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello John R

Your idea sounds like the answer to a Maiden's prayer?

Could it be used for controlling the Vane type model yachts?

Just a thought

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

So I mentioned my design and drawing service twice and Dave has complimented me on it so this posting makes three times.

How many times does it take before it gets irritating?

Bob

In my youth I was THE answer to a maidens prayer, they didn't need electronic guidance systems when I was on form. (now this is irritating)

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Paul…..Your flippancy has taken the wind out of my sails!

My post hints at a possible breakthrough for the likes of Gareth Jones and Kimmo and Llandudno boating lake

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Bob

I wasn't being flippant just enjoying a late breakfast.

I'm sorry to say that I found the technology to be clumsy and something of a 'one trick pony' however it is perfectly usable for basic one direction sailing.

Paul

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

I have to make a comment here. The fact is that the technology is as clumsy as the capacity of the user to write script/code. It will do anything. My 'tiny' submarine is comptely automated and has saved me a fortune.. but I digress.

They are used in 'big' sailboats: http://www.yachtsaildesign.com/en/arduino-sailboat/

Little ones: http://www.robosail.org/

This latter one does seem to defeat the purpose of having a yacht, ie to sail it, but I think they are into sail drones and their real hobby is making up algorythms. Anyway.. one trick pony. I don't think so.

The truth is I have been able to write code, with assistance, but still have no idea how to drive my nine channel hyper transmitter, or the photo copier at work.

My current interest: My old 36MHZ transmitter doesn't play well with a vtail I put in to provide independent control ofthe two motors in the sub. I can use my existing arduino to do this though when I get to it. And I can tailor exactly how it works. It's all in the code. I must say I find this little idea fascinating so I agree it is all in the eye of the beholder.

About the vane control.. I have no idea. Perhaps you could describe the issue..

As for maidens. I don't think so.

 

Cheers

John

Edited By John.Redearth on 04/12/2015 21:09:56

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

And here's me thinking you'd quit…

DM

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

Yes the plan was to sit here feeling smug, but I failed.

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

I admire your candour, JR, but this is probably the wrong forum for 'high-tech'.

For example, there are several people in this forum who genuinely believe that soldering is a black art. There are others who operate remote electrical circuits by using a servo to push the button on a microswitch (seriously!!). Apparently it's uncool to understand anything about electronics; as for programming microprocessors, with one or two notable exceptions you can forget it, m'duck.

BTW Vanes are/were devices which steered otherwise free-sailing model yachts. They acted exactly like a weather-vane and turned the rudder via a geared mechanism according to the wind direction past the mainsail. I would venture that no fancy GPS system or wind-sensing, gyro-based Arduino gizmo could do the job any better.

Dave M

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

The vane gear would, if correctly set, keep a yacht on a set heading to the wind, which might be much the same as the skipper intended. Or, a few yards out, with a wind change, not. I have seen a vane A go in circles (half way along Fleetwood, southerly wind wafting past the hotel across the road).

The compass has a similar restriction. It has a chance of keeping the pointy end of the boat facing the right way, but can do nothing to compensate for the effect of a side wind pushing it sideways without there being something extra to point it at the intended way point. Yes it will face the same direction, but will now be on a parallel course. Probably OK for a range of jobs where a bit of autonomy is required, but I suspect that there is a limited market for the idea.

[John.RedearthParticipant @john-redearth]

I can’t help it..

No there are people who would like to give it a try, or at least be interested to look at it. I hear you about some people who think soldering is a black art, but some of the posts I see (ie Avatar) are saying it doesn’t go far enough. ‘Let’s have GPS and waypoints.’ I have just dropped a simple idea out there and said you can do this…

I find it fun setting the course and then watching the boat battle with wash from other boats, a bit of wind and whatever, always to come back to where you last pointed it. It’s fun for me but I have to bore the people I am with by saying, ‘look no hands,’ as if they’d care!

The arduino club is absolutely, ridiculously huge. So is the boating one, but I think there is a generation gap and I have to say I have managed to get a certain short temperedness from both. It’s almost amusing.

On the arduino forum they really treated me like a complete idiot. I actually posted the old nine oclock news vid about buying a gramophone, because it was how I felt. **LINK**

I didn’t even get a single smiley thingo from anyone. Of course they weren’t alive then. This forum is a doddle in comparison.

So, I don’t think this is necessarily more high tech than my uber transmitter, or my lipo battery charger (bloody thing) and I do think some modelers want to try new things. I do think the mag needs to meet the needs of younger people also. They are moving ahead, but not without me!

Cheers

[Gareth JonesParticipant @garethjones79649]

Hi John et al,

Since my name has been dragged into this debate I thought I had better add my 4 pennworth. I read John's initial post during my lunchtime at work earlier in the week. I thought it was very interesting, although adding self steering to a radio controlled model seemed a bit of an academic exercise. When I looked at the forum again later in the week I was surprised at the Luddite attitudes being expressed by some contributors. I would agree that a big proportion of model boaters are not really interested in modern technology, but that does not mean none of them are. I was planning to add something to that effect some time this weekend but then Bob Abell's post really grabbed my attention and interest.

As Bob says, Kim Holland and myself (and wife Elizabeth) have spent many happy hours trying to get our vane and Braine steered vintage pond yachts from one end of the Llandudno West shore lake to the other, as quickly as possible and preferably without needing to be poled off the side of the pond. For those not familiar with vane steering the picture below shows one wot I made earlier.

As Dave and Malcolm have said, the vane steering mechanism is a clever mechanical auto pilot that makes a fairly big assumption, that the wind will be blowing in the same direction all the way along the pond. By setting the angle of the vane, the gearing between vane and rudder, the strength of the centring spring and not least the set of the sails it is possible to get a model yacht to hold a course relative to the wind direction. The yachts are sailed in pairs, each with a skipper and mate who can pole the yacht off the side or make adjustments to the vane or sail settings if all is not going well. The sight of two vane steered yachts ploughing along the centre of the lake without any intervention from their crew is quite impressive.

Although the use of an Arduino steered yacht with just a heading control may not seem much of an improvement to some, it certainly has possibilities and is worth investigating. In fact it's completely changed my Christmas shopping plans. I was thinking of building a drone based on a thread on the equivalent RCME forum. Instead I am going to start looking for some Arduino kit that I can install in one of our collection of model pond yachts, probably the Razorbill shown in the upper picture. It is the only model yacht I really own, the other 18 in our house are owned by my wife and she probably won't let me mess about with them. The idea of having a 50 or 60 year old model, originally designed to be a free sailer, having a state of the art self steering system is quite appealing.

One of the problems with vane steered yachts is that they cannot really be sailed unless you have access to the whole perimeter of the lake. Putting in a better self steering mechanism could allow us to sail our models in our local lake, if we can be reasonably confident they will go from one side to the other rather than round in circles in the middle. So, this years project is going to be an Arduino steered yacht and Spider J may have to go on the back burner for a while. Coincidentally, the other vintage model yachtsman mentioned by Bob, Kim Holland is also a bit of a whizz with Arduino processors so I might well be going to him for advice shortly. (Kim – how about a race from one side of Mooragh Park lake to the other this summer, abandon the Venetian gondola for the time being and give this a go.)

Watch the forum for details as I will keep a blog on progress, especially now that we have a sailing section to cover this side of the hobby. After all it will make a change from reading about Fairey power boats.

Gareth

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Luddite?

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

"Shemarah II" – 32 pages with 469 photos and 319 posts.

"Spider J" (To date) – 10 pages with 76 photos

c/w Fairey Huntress – 3 pages with 7 photos. Pardon me if I appear to be grandstanding here.

Edited By Dave Milbourn on 05/12/2015 15:48:22

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