Mersey Ferry PS Claughton

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi Paul and Dave W

Just found this picture, which might be relevant?

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Captain Bob

Thank you for doing some research:

I can answer your question….the name Claughton comes from an area in Birkenhead, which used to be a village, and a few Mersey ferries have carried this name, the one in your photo is a diesel screw ferry that was in use from 1930 to 1961.

This brings me neatly to my next potential source of information, the Claughton that we are researching was ordered and owned by the Birkenhead Improvement Commission, whose records now reside with the Wirral Council.

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 03/12/2015 10:33:07

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

How it could have looked!

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hello Bob

You have been busy with your photo programme again…………….it would have looked quite nice with paddles.

I wonder what the little bits of superstructure are for, the one in front of the funnel is the wheelhouse but what are the other two for?

Paul

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul the two structures on either side of the wheel house are for the engine telegraph to assist docking .

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

Thank you. I hope that you didn't have to make another trip just to get these excellent photos.

I am also wondering what kind of article research you are undertaking, Mersey Ferries perhaps?

Kevin

I've not spoken to Kevin for a while but this is worth saying.

This demonstrates a valuable research tool, if a preliminary search is fruitless then sometimes it pays to ask an expert.

A word of caution though……asking such a question without possessing a background knowledge or without doing your own basic research might result in an exasperated expert providing you with totally the wrong answer.

Some of the long term members will have seen the occasional newbie popping up and asking questions that they obviously haven't bothered to research themselves. They then disappear just as quickly when they don't receive an instant 'chapter and verse' reply.

Paul

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Dave,

Is the boat behind the Lancashire one of the boats in current service on the Mersey?

Philh

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul only to pleased to be of help. I only live about 10mintes drive from the Williamson and needed to collect more information re- future article not specifically on the Mersey Ferries yet having this small but significant collection of builders models on my door step is an advantage. I just enjoy examining these superbly crafted models but there are always exceptions I hasten to add, the PS Claughton being one of them { In time of haste slow down} As a matter of interest many of the original builders models of the Wallasey Ferries are located in the Earlston Library Wallasey .

here's one

Well Paul without hesitation I bet you known this builders model . The Chips were lovely !

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Yes indeed

But to end up like this is disgraceful

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Posted by Phil Hale on 04/12/2015 12:40:37:

Dave,

Is the boat behind the Lancashire one of the boats in current service on the Mersey?

Philh

Hi Phill the model your refer to is of the MV Overchurch . The original built at Cammel Lairds entered service in the spring of 1962 . After a re-fit in the 1990s was renamed Royal Daffodil but due to operational problems was laid up in the January of 2013 .

Dave Wooley

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul It is so sad to see a much loved vessel allowed to decline in this way. Better it was scraped than this.

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Yes Dave to let her just rust away on the Thames all forgotten about is a little sad, yes its just a mass of steel but it was the centre of many peoples working lives and should have been either restored or cut up.  

The Chips were lovely !

For those who don't appreciate or understand Daves comment I would suggest that this is a prime opportunity to do a little research of your own.

Its not difficult just google Royal Iris 1950……first prize for the correct answer is a meat pie.

Edited By Paul T on 04/12/2015 13:22:12

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Whilst wading through another archive I came across this Mersey Ferry near miss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nENvBrhkK-4&feature=related

Edited By Paul T on 04/12/2015 16:33:14

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Dave,

Just an interesting note….. My dad would have wanted the Royal Iris to be side lined and scrapped off a lot earlier. He hated it. He said the Overchurch etc were far better as ferry boats.

Philh

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

That was a scandalous piece of seamanship!

Who was actually the guilty party?………The Royal Daffodill captain?

Bob

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Posted by Phil Hale on 04/12/2015 16:51:21:

Dave,

Just an interesting note….. My dad would have wanted the Royal Iris to be side lined and scrapped off a lot earlier. He hated it. He said the Overchurch etc were far better as ferry boats.

Philh

Hi Phil well if you went out on one of the "cruise nights" to Formby point and not just the Brazil buoy then after a sack full of chips not to mention 2 hours of Mersey beat then yes your dad is right . However the best Ferry they let go far to early and that was the Wallasey Corporation Royal Daffodil 2 . a joy to ride on in any weather but the power plant was not cost effective so it had to go .

This model is in the board room of the main office

Dave Wooley

[Phil H1Participant @philh196021]

Dave, I'm not quite sure what his issue was i.e., whether the machinery was inferior or the maintenance was more difficult for whatever reason but he seemed to have a strong dislike for the Royal Iris. He seemed to believe the other boats were far superior.

Philh

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Phil I have sailed on the Iris many times and the vessel was more suited to river cruising than any of the other vessels then in service . There may well have been mechanical or even operational issues but at the time we just enjoyed the trips . The Royal Iris was certainly distinctive and Barry Freeman still gets lots of interest when he sails his model but I much preferred the Wallasey corporation livery but I don't tell Barry that.

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

An update on the research.

I have found a set of meeting minutes from Birkenhead Improvement Commission showing that they were concerned about damage to the ship and that they wished to further investigate a design by an American called Benjamin Babbitt who designed a ship with internal paddle wheels.

The builders model was built without paddle wheels so that the Birkenhead Improvement Commission could discuss the matter further.

I am hoping to get a copy of the original design sketches next week

Paul

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

What year are we talking about here, Paul?

Those internal paddles look interesting?

Bob

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul now that is interesting . The Liverpool patent office on William Brown street is a treasure trove of archive material having all the old Engineer periodicals plus drawings , lithographs and a wonderful system for locating specific articles . The nice man /lady staffing the desk brings all of the requested material to you . Looks like it might be worth a visit just to follow up on enclosed paddle systems . Great result with your follow on research I'm intrigued .

Dave Wooley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Dave

All of the Liverpool museums and archives are staffed by excellent people, In the past I have spent days researching the Georgian and Victorian buildings that I was responsible for restoring and the archive staff often went above and beyond my search requests by offering material that was related to my search.

The Claughton is becoming quite an interesting project and I am quite looking forward to seeing the sketches.

Bob

The dates on the internal paddle ship are given as mid 1800s and I haven't nailed the exact date yet but it certainly fits in with the building of the Claughton

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 05/12/2015 10:59:44

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Another update

The archivist at Glasgow university has been in touch but the news isn't good as despite having a large collection of documents from the ship builders he cant find any records of the Claughton.

He has given me a catalogue of shipyard documents that are held in other archives but unfortunately the time period that I am researching doesn't contain many records and what documents are available relate to large ocean going ships and not little ferries.

Other archives are still to reply so there is still hope of some drawings.

Paul

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I had a nice chat this evening with Mr Carson a direct descendant of William Carson who was Ferry Manager during the period when Claughton was designed, built and operated.

Mr Carson has a private collection of documents and drawings made by William Carson during his career, one page related how the anchor chains from Great Eastern were used to secure the first floating dock on the Mersey and another gave details of the design and construction of the Iron Pier at New Brighton.

But best of all were diary entries and meeting notes relating to the Claughton. These were quite numerous and cover the discussions surrounding the inboard paddlewheels.

I will sort out my notes during the next couple of days and relate what I can.

Paul

[David WooleyParticipant @davidwooley82563]

Hi Paul your research is bearing fruit . On the same tack but to show that the system did work successfully I seemed to recall that the inboard paddle system was used by the US Navy back in 1812 with the building of the steam powered warship Demologas a Robert Fulton design . a fully working model was at the Blackpool show back in 09. The difference being is the single paddle wheel was mounted in the centre in what appeares to be twin hulls .

Dave Wooley

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