How many people still scratch build?

[Tony WilkoParticipant @tonywilko10595]

The only thing i buy is the running gear, and the radio control, and i recycle the R/C, everything else is from scrap or what else i can pick up. I built a Tug over 3′ long from scrap after a stroke, i wanted to test myself, and though its not perfect it was totally scratch built from plans inside my own head. Tony

[NederlanderParticipant @nederlander]

Living in central Florida I find some of the governments actively discourage model boating even though the area has a plethora of lakes. Seems the rule of thumb is if it doesn’t make money we don’t want it. I did find one city in an adjacent county that said OK to use our lakes but no groups or clubs. With this attitude it is not surprising the hobby is in decline and we find fewer with the knowledge to scratch build or build at all simply because they are denied exposure to the hobby and hence are unaware of its existance.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

another reason for you to move over to the bonny UK, nederlander……i couldn’t exist without my models, either scratch or kit built.

[NederlanderParticipant @nederlander]

Don’t tempt me Neil, lol! Egad, a whole country that hates Bush as much as I do. There is a heaven……….

[Tony WilkoParticipant @tonywilko10595]

Nederlander I’ve just been to Florida, Orlando to be exact for two weeks, and i noticed there are many lakes there i noticed there was not anybody using them.

Write to your congressman, senator or something, my Dad always told me “If you don’t ask you don’t get” Tony

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

If there is no sign saying don’t use the water, why not just go ahead anyway!    If you enjoy sailing R/C, I don’t see that a club is even necessary.    I made an R/C three-masted schooner once and went to the nearest lake and enjoyed sailing it around without any great number of spectators!

 

Anyway, R/C isn’t the only area of model building.    I would dare to suggest that by far the greatest number of models are those built and never intended to sail, but just to sit there looking good.

But as the word “scracthbuilt”  was used in the original question, I would agree that it has almost died out.     I only know one or two model builders who scratchbuild, but the pendulum has swung so far away from it that even if I mention the dreaded “S” word, I am usually jumped on!

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

I don’t agree Bob that scratchbuilding has all but died out.

 

Maybe hull scratch building has taken a dip, because of the vast number of hulls available on the market, but I can say (only from my own personal building programme,) that  the last 9 models that I have built, with a build programme of about a year each, 7 were totally scratch, 1 was a much modified kit, and one was a kit. So that is about a 77% lean towards scratch build.

 

At the moment I am scratch building 9 (nine) model lifeboats, 4 of which are at 1:12 scale and 5 are 1:96 minatures,( which will eventually be made into dihorama’s.)

 

I love scratch building because I enjoy producing those little bits that others have not done before.

 

Having said that, I do not see any stigma to kit or semi kit building…….all forms of modelling give pleasure to different people, and would certainly never stick my nose in the air to someone who has had a go, at any form of building, be it scratch or kit.

 

Horses for courses, so they say.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 06/05/2010 08:34:56

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

It may not have died out as far as you or I are concerned, but as I hardly ever come across anyone else who scratchbuilds, I am convinced that it has more-or-less died out across the country!

 

I do not attach any stigma to building kits and it is only you saying I am sticking my nose in the air about kits, but theb truth is rather the opposite.

 

When I attend out local North West Model Shipwrights club (Next meeting day after tomorrow, Saturday, 8th May), I always make a point in looking at all the kits, and making complimentary remarks about them, even though they don’t really interest me greatly!   But on the other side of the coin, the majority of members don’t even seem to notice mine at all and make no pretence whatsoever of even looking at them!   Not that it bothers me, because there are several members who are interested and have even taken up the same style themselves.      Like you say, each to his own!

 

Anyway, if any of you want to come along to the meeting, you will be made welcome.   Wives, partners, children welcome.     Plenty of free parking and disabled spaces as well.    Coffee-making and toilet facilities available.    Most members take packed lunches, but a few of them go to local pub a couple of hundreds yards up the road.

 

The meeting is at the Church Hall in Grimsargh, Lancs.   Starts at 1100, break for lunch 1230 – 1400.   Meeting closes about 1600.

 

Bob

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob,

 

Scratchbuilding may be in declne generally but it is certainly nowhere near extinct. I could easily name a couple of dozen exponents off the top of my head and when you attend the various shows around the country you will still see plenty of examples of ‘proper’ scratch built boats. In fact all the models entered into the 2009 ME Exhibition were scratchbuilt except one and that was in the kit class!

 

Building waterline miniatures is indeed a niche area however but hasn’t that always been the case? In most years the ME Exhibition has an excellent display of miniatures (but not 2009!) but they all do seem to come from a very small number of entrants.

 

I think there is also the change in preferences to be taken into account. In the first couple of decades after the war boat modellers tended to build small scale models of large ships but now it is the other way round as most of the offerings of the kit manufacturers (who cater to the market) demonstrate.

 

No doubt if we were living in the 1930s we’d all be building Jellicoe’s Grand Fleet. Times change.

 

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

But on the other side of the coin, the majority of members don’t even seem to notice mine at all and make no pretence whatsoever of even looking at them!

 

i think you are in the wrong club, bob, if other members do that to your models.

 

That is just the sort of behaviour i have stood out against for many years, and sadly a lot of people find my outspoken method of dealing with such patronising manners not to their taste….well, they would, wouldn’t they.

 

And secondly, I was not accusing you of holding a stigma towards kit builders.

 

However i do find your comment about looking at kits but having no interest in them, really as disparaging to those who have spent many many hours building a kit, and  just as bad really as not looking at the models in the first place.

 

I look at every model for what it is, a labour of love to the builder, and the only models I tend not to look at are those such as fast electric and competition yachts that have no detailing.and as such leave me cold.

 

Having said that though, you reap what you sow, and if you have no interest in kits and such, you can’t really blame other club members for not showing any interest in your own creations.

 

I myself, think your models are beautiful, and really enjoy seeing them, both taking shape….and the finished item,but you can’t expect every one to feel the same……..just as you admit, you have no real interest in kit built models.

 

You can’t blame other people for having similar outlooks on modelling as your own, and as such, you have to put up with that as a fact of life, I’m afraid.

Edited By neil howard-pritchard on 06/05/2010 12:37:56

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I am NOT in the wrong club!   If I wanted to join  a club that was only scrathbuilding (of whatever size), there aren’t any in my area.    When I joined NWMS in about 1993, it WAS scrathbuilding only!   But as the older members died off, we had to diversify to survive.   All types of model are welcome from plastic to the very top of the range scratchbuilt.   We are non-competitive and to not take part in competitions as a club.   Some members (we have about 60) have never built a model in their lives, but it is more of a social event than anything else and a “grand day out!”

 

Fair enough with your comment on me being “disparaging” by looking interested in models even if I am not.   Maybe I should just “stick my nose in the air” and ignore their existance.    I am not blaming my club for anything.   I can only repeat that we all get on famously and have a good laugh at every meeting.    Neither am I “putting up” with anything.    If everyone made scrathcbuilt models and was merecenary enough to sell them (like I invariably do), I would soon be pushed out of the market.     As I have said numerous times, I simply do not have the skill or patience required to build a model to the standard of a well-made kit – probably never will have either!

 

 I was only answering the question that I believe scratchbuilding is in serious decline and will probably never come back!

 

As Colin pointed out, you may get an impression that there is a lot of it still going on when it is all gathered together under one roof.   But just put either “model ship” or “model boats” in Google and you will find that over 90% is kits!

 

Again, I repeat, I was answering the questionas to whether we thought scratchbuilding is dying out and I think it is, but if you have evidence otherwise, please tell us.

 

Anyway, an hour ago, I put a Poll question on another model ship webbsite asking what they build, theq questions are:

 

Scratch only?

Kit only?

Scratch with occasional kit?

Kit with occasional scratch?

Equal number of each?

 

After the first hour, I am shown to be quite wrong in my assumption that scratch is dying out as the results at the moment are

Scratch 4,

Scratch with occasional kit 2,

Kit only 1.   The rest are 0!

 

Bob

 

Edited By Bob Wilson on 06/05/2010 13:40:52

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

When this thread first started I decided to keep out of it as it’s one of those subjects which generate heated debate- obviously!  I have tried to scratchbuild over the years but  have moved over to a couple of kits and have now bought a GRP hull (!!!!) in the interests of speeding things up.

Like Neil  I don’t mind what people do as long as they enjoy it. What really gets up my nose is when people claim to scratch build when they have used a GRP hull. I don’t know what you call it but it ain’t scratchbuilding in my book. It reminds me of a time a chap was showing me a rather fine sailing model and said that the thing he liked most was that it was all his own work. It was a GRP hull, the masts were aluminium section bought in and the sails were professionally made. It still looked lovely- but all his own work?

It would have been churlish to say anything however.

People get huge pleasure from model making and that’s what counts in the end though.

By the way Bob, I must get round to putting some photos of my Dad’s waterline models up. Not as fine as yours but charming nevertheless. It was a lifelong passion of his and they have passed into my posession after his death last year.

Finally, I think one problem is that you have to be pretty good to beat some of the kits you can get these days and that may put people off scratchbuilding.

There, I feel better now!

Ian

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Ian,

I can agree with what you say without any qualms.    I think this topic has wandered off the original question though  – “Is scratchbuilding decling?”    I feel that it definately is, but the moment I mention it, I am taken to task for being condescending to my fellow club members by showing a polite interest in kit builds, followed by a suggestion that I am in the wrong club anyway.    There has also been talk of what scratchbuilding and kit building costs are, but that wasn’t part of the original question, was it?  

 

My poll on the other website has been viewed 149 times so far.   Here are the current results:

 

Scratch only  7

Kits only         5

Scratch mainly with occasional kits 3

Kits mainly with occasional scratch 6

Equal of both 4

 

Summary 25 voted.

7 exclusively scratch, 11 mainly kits, 3 mainly scratch, 4 equal number of both.      124 didn’t even bother to vote!  

 

Make of it what you will!

 

Bob

 

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob, what you said was that in your opinion scratchbuilding has pretty much died out. That’s a bit different to just saying it has declined which is certainly true.

 

Anyway I’m not altgether sure what your poll might prove, I don’t build model warships, I don’t build model steamers or lifeboats and I don’t build waterline miniatures – yet I am very interested indeed in all three categories and derive a great deal of enjoyment from looking at them. I much prefer scratchbuilding but will build a kit if the mood takes me so, like Neil I don’t feel that I can be categorised as one type of modeller or another.

 

The bottom line is that we all do what interests us and if others don’t share my particular blend of preferences then it’s of no concern to me.

 

Colin

 

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Bob, you really are touchy if anyone questions your stance…………get over it, chill out and enjoy your modelling for what it gives you.

 

If you enjoy what you do, do you really care what others around you are doing.

 

As for me accusing you of what you suggest, quite the contrary,

 

But if you can’t take a little critisism, don’t give it.( and i am not talking about your model making here )

neil.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

I am not at all touchy.   The discussion seems to have gone completely away from the original question – Is scratchbuilding declining?   I am convinced it is.  I am convinced it has virtually died out.!  I can’t find any evidence to suggest otherwise!       I don’t see what any individuals preferences have to do with it at all.    Everywhere I look on the internet, the modelmaking scene is dominated by kits!     It really is, isn’t it?

 

I am not critiscising anything.     Of our club of over 60 members, maybe two or three scratchbuild!   In 1993, it was most of them!   If that is not a decline, I don’t know what is!

 

Bob

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Well Bob, as I said previously, I still see plenty of scratchbuilt boats on my relatively limited travels so while I would accept that it is declining I certainly wouldn’t agree that it has died out. In your club maybe but elsewhere I think not.

 

I think that the truth is that model boating generally has declined as youngsters prefer other leisure pursuits. But to counteract that, there seem to be quite a few older people coming back into the hobby, particularly as they reach retirement age which may give it a boost until we all die off!

 

Also you have to take into account that there are many more options for model boaters than there used to be. In the 1960s you either scratch built or you built something like an Aerokit. These days you have the options of scratchbuilding, building full  kits, building semi kits, buying a hull and building the superstructure, buying a ready to Run or Almost ready to Run model or simply buying secondhand off Ebay which seems to be a popular option these days. And as Neil says, many kits these days give a better result than can be easily achieved from scratchbuilding so people naturally wonder why they should bother.

 

All these choices mean that the original methods of building model boats have been greatly diluted. Maybe that is not what some of us would like to see but that is the way things are.

 

Preparing my Commemorative Special of Model Boats did bring home to me the changes that have occurred over the years. With your long standing history in the hobby you might find it an interesting read!

 

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 06/05/2010 20:53:09

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Is scratchbuilding declining?   I am convinced it is.  I am convinced it has virtually died out.!  I can’t find any evidence to suggest otherwise!    

 

I suggest you go to a few shows then, bob, and really open your eyes.

 

I don’t see what any individuals preferences have to do with it at all.    Everywhere I look on the internet, the modelmaking scene is dominated by kits!    

 

You are answering your own problem and question in one  there. As you are such a competant andexperienced modeller in your own field, who as already told many on this and other forums often that you started off many years ago with large R/C models and even a kit at one stage, but now because of preference, like to build minatures…why do you even bother to look on the internet at what is available or going on. I would see no point myself.

In your field you are probably master of your own art and field……what does it matter to you that other fields of the hobby are [in your own opinion] dying out.

To me, your argument is a fruitless one, as you are basically only interested in your own field.

However you cannot make people interested in your specific sphere of the hobby by threatening to remove threads from the forum if the viewing rate doesn’t go up, just as i wouldn’t threaten to take pictures of my models off the forum and gallery, if people didn’t comment on them.

People have different likes and dislikes, and that is up to them to choose.

neil.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Neil,

You may see no point in me being interested in all aspects of maritime modelling, but I do – I can’t help it!    The very fact that I do look elsewhere must prove to some that I am interested in other fields of the hobby.    I can’t remove threads from the forum if viewing rates don’t go up as far as I know.   Thought only the moderators could do that.   You may be referring to the fact that I have said that if not many people look, there is not much point in me going to the trouble of putting anything on!     That is true, but pure laziness on my part.    If there is little interest, I just don’t feel all that motivated.     I did, however, finish the GLENMOOR today and I will put a picture or two on tomorrow because  I know one or two are interested in it.    Incidentally, although I have taken about 150 photographs of the build, I have only displayed one or two on various forums.   Not because of low viewing figures (one forum generally manages over 1,000 views for each of my builds), but because I am planning another comprehensive CD disk on the building of it.    (this by popular request).   You may say that this in itself shows that interest has not died out.   But of my last disk on the barque SVAERDSTAD that was a great success, only one person has come back and showed me what they have produced from it.    When I first saw it, I thought initially it was the one I made!   

 

Colin,

I will be interested in the commmorative issue of MB when it comes out (when is it coming out?).  I do buy the odd issue if there is something in it that interests me.     Incidentally, I dont subscribe to any modelmaking journal or magazine these days, unless as I say, there is something in them that takes my interest.       I was once a regular contributer to it many years ago, but got phased out.   I think my last  article was tanker ALGOL, published in about 1979!  

 

As most of you will know, I have sold about 238 models in the past 18 years.    Nearly all the buyers have come out with the comment (or similar) that they have searched high and low, world-wide for someone who scratchbuilds merchant ship models and generally drawn a blank, so that proves to me, at least, that scratchbuilders are pretty thin on the ground.    (For ships anyway.   Maybe different for speedboats and R/C boats).

 

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

The very fact that I do look elsewhere must prove to some that I am interested in other fields of the hobby.   

 

I’m sorry if I  have missinterpreted your interest in all forms of the hobby Bob, but it’s not what you imply at times, and I can only make comment on what I read.

 

Having said that…..I have admitted myself that there are certain aspects of the hobby that leave me cold…….but that is human nature.

 

But Ii can assure you, scratch building is alive and well just up the road in Fleetwood.

 

I just can’t understand Colin’s comment though, that he has no interest in lifeboats…..b****y heathen, shame on him, lol

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Bob,

 

You can order here: http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/24897/model-boats-commemorative-special-1950-2010-pre-order

 

or buy it in W H Smith from 13th May. I came across several of your articles when trawling through the 700+ issues from 1950!

 

I agree with you that there are probably hardly any people these days who build the sort of models you do and that is a shame in many ways. Maybe more of us should be exploiting this untapped market..

 

I have looked at your work and methods and I think that with a bit of practice and application I could do something similar if not up to your excellent standards but at the moment my interests lie elsewhere.

 

As you get older there is only so much you can devote your time to and at the moment my own interests revolve around writing about the hobby rather than practising. it. Sad I know, but last Saturday it got me a fantastic trip out on a lifeboat!

 

Colin

[Peter FitnessParticipant @peterfitness34857]

Bob, in the past I have posted comments on your outstanding work, saying how much I admired your models and how much I am in awe of your skills at building in such a small scale. However, it is not a field of modelling I aspire to. My preference is to scratch build RC models to the best of my limited ability, but that does not preclude an interest in other branches of the hobby.

 

As to your assertion that scratch building is dying out, I beg to differ. It seems to be generally agreed that it is declining but, within the hobby of RC marine modelling, scratch building is alive and well. Certain aspects may indeed be dying, detailed static models of merchant ships for one but, other branches are going strongly. You have only to read through the posts on ModelBoatMayhem to see that.

 

I am a member of a small club of about 25 members here in Australia, of which about 10 are active scratch builders, Other Australian clubs that I know of have similar ratios. Judging by the number of so called “cottage” industries in Britain selling model boat related items aimed at scratch builders, it would seem that interest is still at a sufficiently high level for them to keep going. May they continue to do so.

 

Peter. 

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Thanks for the replies.   I shall certainly look out for the commemorative issue.     This picture may surprise some of you.   It is my last R/C model.   The slabs it is standing on are 29inches wide, so that will give you an idea of the size.   It is plate on frame, but the plates are wood rather than steel.     I never actually sailed it.   I had intended to take it to Fleetwood, but never got round to it.   Finally gave it away.     I really wish there was some water a bit closer to Preston.

 

I am not all that keen on lifeboats either.

 

If I saw a kit of something like the passenger liner WINDSOR CASTLE that I sailed in for a number of years, I would definately show an interest, but I grow weary to the soul with the countless parade of CUTTY SARK, BOUNTY, VICTORY and TITANIC – I just can’t help feeling bored about them.

 

Bob

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

a lovely looking model, Bob…………..do you have any close up shots, and how long was she.

Those are the types of vessels I would like to see more of, and especially at the shows.

She looks a little like the old Underhill plans model of the Caledonean Monarch

neil.

[Bob WilsonParticipant @bobwilson59101]

Thanks,

Don’t have any close-ups, but you can enlarge it to some extent by clicking on the picture.   It is the SS MANDALAY (1911), Paddy Henderson’s.   Can’t remember how long, but the concrete slabs under the model are 29 inches across!

 

On considering the matter, I would adapt my statment that scratchbuilding has almost died out to “scratchbuilding of merchant ships has almost died out!”     

 

As you all say, lots opf scratchbuilders of small craft, boats, yachts, R/C etc.    My own interest is certainly not confined to miniatures.   I started building them of necessity when I was at sea because I couldn’t carry a large tool kit or vast amounts of materials with me.

 

The field is still enormous though, covering wood, iron and steel sailing ships as well as the numerous types of steam and motor ships.        I suppose the decline began when the word “ship” was phased out in favour of “boat,” when describing anything that floated.

 

I have again searched for scratchbuilt merchant ships and have found a very small number world-wide on the internt.   Even so, a lot of them are built on GRP hulls.

 

Once again, I must stress that  as I actually like building ship models, it doesn’t appeal to me to buy a ready-made hull.    Apart from anything else, they are horribly expensive!

 

Some time ago, when I submitted an article to a well-known model magazine (It was NOT Model Boats) the editor rejected it saying “our readers are rather blinkered in their modelling interests!”        I sent it to Model Bopats and they published it.      It was about the steel barque GLENESK.

 

It still seems strange to me  that the demand for merchant ship models is so high that it can be a nuisance, but few modellers want to build them.

 

It is not a matter of “awesome skill and infinite patience!”     I have never claimed that, and in all my writings I have insisted that the biggest stumbling block is people saying “I could never do that!”         Or  “I haven’t the time.”        Even at sea, when my spare time was in very short supply, I usually managed half an hour or so a day .    Patience, I have very little of that.   I like to see the job up and running in the first half hour and all washed up and finished in about four weeks.    

 

Bob

[Author]

Posts