How many people still scratch build?

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

 

Do you want to set up the dedicated thread as there might be some special editor type things that you might wish to add.

Whilst the actual building of the model is not required I would have to insist that anybody wishing to win the prize would produce a model if only to prove that it can be done.

 

Neil

 

If you think that 1st April is to soon then we can move the completion date back to 1st May. What do you think?

 

Paul

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

yes please.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

I hadn’t thought about our overseas members who might not get a copy of the plan for some time so we should push the finish date to 1st May.

 

Paul

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

Things found in skips, online auction sites or at car boot sales will not be accepted

 

Why Not ?? is not scratch building , and building by the cheapest method not all about using materials which can be found.

 

Ie 2nd hand motors props etc.  I am sure people who scratch build have a shed full of stuff which has been recovered for recycling which we should be promoting.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

I think Paul is right, we can’t assume that people have stuff in their existing bits boxes as a newcomer wouldn’t have access to that.

 

However, what about people buying radios off Ebay?

 

Colin

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul,

 

Yes, I will start a  separate thread shortly once we have got comments from others on board. Do we need to agree in advance what basic tools are needed or can we just see what people come up with? I am thinking of asking Glynn to judge whether the proposed tool kits are adequate to build the model.

 

Colin

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I am certainly in for a larf, as long as i dont have to actually build the thing, having too much on my plate in the way of projects already. I am a great fan on Glynn`s style, its very accessible and amenable to tailoring to your own fancy. As a cheapskate myself I have done a lot of thinking outside the box when it comes to materials, but I am thinking a beginner is going to source virtually all their stuff straight from a model shop…   Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

 

The equipment and materials can be purchased from anywhere the only proviso being that the cost must be verifiable.

So if the members wish to use ebay then all they have to do is quote the item number as well as the price.

I will produce a typical schedule of costs later today to help point everyone in the right direction.

The choice of tools is a personal thing and any beginner would have to think carefully about which tools would be the best for the job so I don’t think that we should provide a list of recommended tools but I do agree that Glynn would be an excellent choice to judge if the chosen tools are right for the job.

Paul

[Dr John BoothParticipant @drjohnbooth43899]

This is superb and is proving in a very practical way that the ability to scratch build can encompass an entire range of enthusiasts from beginners to experts.

I am very glad that one of Glynn’s plans has been chosen as his style harks back to a time before ready to run models when model builders had to think for themselves.

John

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Just a very small point, but although I have a large selection of props in my “bit” box, they are not free, as I paid for them all at one time or another. All the bits that you  have laying around from previous projects have all been paid for at some time…unless you were actually given them or found them in a skip. As far as constructing to a minimum price goes, the cheapest will have to involve either exotic or unusual stuff (card for the hull for instance) and in general i would think that this demands previous modeling skills to achieve an acceptable result?   After all, to take it to extremes, a log and penknife  COULD produce the model, and cost virtually nothing! (but a years carving)

or not, you say    Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Scratch Build Challenge

A basic schedule of prices would look something like this.

£6.90 2ft x 4ft 4mm ply from B&Q                                         

£2.99 3mm x 3mm softwood trim from B&Q              

£4.99 500ml PVA glue from Screwfix                          

£3.90 500ml white gloss paint from B&Q                               

£1.99 1lb of sheet lead from plumbers merchant                       

£4.99 500mm brass tube from Hobbycraft                               

£3.99 Prop shaft and prop from local model shop                    

£15.56 27mg 2 channel radio set with 2 servos of eBay

£21.99 Esc from on line supplier                                              

£7.99 Set of batteries and charger from Argos             

£3.85 Model Boat magazine                                        

£7.99 240v jigsaw from Wicks                                    

£0.50 Junior hacksaw from Wicks                                           

£0.99 Paint brush from B&Q                                       

Paul (the prices are made up)       

Edited By The Fat Controller on 19/03/2009 19:20:25

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley

 

We all have “gash boxes” full of bits and pieces but the first timer who wished to build Glynns model would have to start from scratch (pun) and buy all of the parts,

Glynn has given us a blow by blow account of his build so anybody can follow how it is put together.

So use your skill to cost all of the materials and equipment (shave and cut corners where you can) but remember that all the prices have to be verified.

The challange is to get the cost as low as you can without using spare bits that you have lying around.

 

Paul

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

i would draw the line at the cheepness of the 2 channel r/c paul.

not being nit picky but a total beginner would not know what he would be buying so would no doubt go to his local model shop and probably pay retail price of around £49.99 for a similar set new.

just a point.

at least he’d feel safe that if it didn’t work, then as a beginner he could go back and have it shown to him.

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

Howes , who advertise a 2 channel r/c on this site do one with 1 servo for 29.99,

 

 

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

It’s great to see you chaps embracing the concept of the challenge…..who would have thought that a 2 channel radio could be bought new for £29.99….but can you find one cheaper?

What about a speed controller does it have to be an ESC or could it be a Bobs Board?

 

Could someone build this model for less than £50.00

 

Paul

 

Edited By The Fat Controller on 20/03/2009 06:55:11

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

It is I guess rather nice to have an electronic speed control but even at 21 sterling that is quite expensive when there are cheaper ways of doing it.     I am quite happy to work with just off,low,medium, full options in both direcctions and even question the need for more on off and on in both directions.  Though I suspect I would like to have off,medium,and full.  

 

Below are diagrams of my version of the ‘Bob’s Board’ which uses electrical strip board with a wiper and two or three resistors.   The drawback with this system is that you are draining the battery the same amount whatever speed to go at.   The other diagram is a simple on/off iin each direction which several of us think is all we really need.   Though I have some doubts and think off, medium, asnd full would be better.

 

Our working is limited compared to the complicated navigation courses I read about in Model Boats and most time we are simply going around in circles on the pond.   We do have a harbour with wharves to practice our manouvering using prop grab etc and often we simply want a short burst of full power to halt or push us in the direction we want to go with the rudder directing the push sideways etc.  Turning the boat in little more than its length.

 

I am working on the off/medium/full switched control but first attempt didn’t work with physical interferance between the servo arm and switches.

 

Anyway here are the two systems so far. …

 

Edited By JC Uknz on 20/03/2009 07:17:30

Edited By JC Uknz on 20/03/2009 07:30:33

Edited By JC Uknz on 20/03/2009 07:35:06

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Building your own speed controller is one way of getting the cost down…just keep your reciept from Maplins to show how much the parts cost.

 

paul

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

You might like to consider what items the builder is likely to have lying around the house anyway that could be useful. I take it we are not assuming that our beginner lives in a cave!

 

Maybe things like an electric or hand drill and bits, Stanley knife, dressmakers pins, a table or something suitable to build on etc.

 

Colin

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

I thought this was all about an absolute beginner, buying “off the shelf”

NOT, making your own esc’s winding your own motors, growing your own balsa wood trees, etc.

Please either keep it simp[le,by going down to your local model shop to buy all the gear, ( plus such as B & Q/etc for tools etc ) or I see ABSOLUTELY no point in the excercise.

 

Lets face it, it’s a dad or mum, that comes up to you at the lakeside asking advice, not an electronics engineer.

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

The issue is getting very muddy.

 

In its basic form the challange is to do a simple mental excersise in hoe much it would cost to build this model just as if you were a first timer.

 

However I realise that i am confusing the issue so I will reset the challange later today under a new thread with a full set of rules and guidlines.

 

Dont give up on this as I really do wnat to show how easy it is for a newbie to start scratch building.

 

Paul

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

Making your own things like speed controllers etc possbly a bit ott,

However when I first started making models I did it myself with no help , I was 11 and was able to buy glue,blades and stuff from the local diy shop (must have been my sweet looking face), However things have changed (my face is still sweet) I suppose and some help to purchase Items is now required.

 

As regards Model shops , these are few and far between and most kids by the age of 7 are www wise , If my son came to me to build one that is the first place I would look, as the nearest decent model shop to me is 40 miles round trip, and so the WWW should not be excluded.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Paul, don’t start a new thread just yet. Post your latest proposals on this one and then whem we’ve agreed or amended them they can be transferred to a new thread. Otherwise the new thread will just get other people’s ideas tacked onto it like this one rather than be a nice shiny new competition thread.

 

as far as speed controllers are concerned I don’t think you need one for this model, just some way of turning the motor on and off. Yachts don’t normally go backwards so ahead only may be all you need. Alternatively maybe a cheap resistive type if one can be found.

 

I think we can assume that our beginner has access to the Internet.

 

Colin

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Colin

 

Ok I will stick to this line I just didnt want to hijack Johns thread.

Bit tired now but I will re-write everything tomorrow in a format that everyone will be clear about.

 

Paul

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

As to who comes for advice ….

I am a little annoyed perhaps when the boy asks “Where can I buy one of those mister?” and the answer from the old man  is “You don’t buy them, you make them”  Not really very helpful.

 

Then the last person I spoke to was a life long wood worker with more tools in his workshop than I ever dream of having.     Building his boat, a Glynn Guest design, using plastic sheet.  I guess he wants a change from wood.

 

As I see it the biggest obstackle is the cost of R/C, the rest is or can be pretty cheap.  As a model engineer I’m reminded of the ‘father’ of MEs … LBSC …. made himself a hacksaw out of a bread knife when he started as a kid in the early 1900s.and built his first live steam railway engine, something I have yet to achieve with all the tools at my disposal..

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello JC

 

I remember old Curly…………….he was a real improvisor…………….he could make a tank engine in ten weeks!

 

It took me six years to make his 3 1/2 gauge Britannia!

 

They were very happy days……………..Bob

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