Guardsman by Vic Smeed

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Thanks all for the positive feed back, when it would have been much easier (and easier on the wallet) to buy the styrene hull. I have thoroughly enjoyed building this wooden hull (to date).

Bob, I will certainly take your advice and wear a facemask. Larry/Ian, I plan to semi finish the hull and then apply card plating (which Bob located in a local art/book shop). I don't think I will go as far as detailing rivets though.

Looking forward to seeing the larger scale steam version Ian. What steam plant will you be using?

Tony.

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

Hi Tony,

The timber arrived yesterday-cost an arm and a leg, but still cheaper I think than an equivalent GRP hull of a similar size. A luthier friend of mine donated a large lump of obeche which I can saw up for the planking. I decided to build the hull just the same as the original drawings and will laminate the blocks from balsa, then epoxy and plate the hull in card. I saw a method where the card plating was then covered in dilute waterproof PVA and I'm thinking of doing that.

The boat will displace about 19lb. One useful aspect of having the plastic hull is that I could check the displacement- about 4.75lb, and my boat will be 1.6 times the size, giving a scale of 1:20. I just hope all these calculatons are correct.

I have a Cheddar Gemini plant which I think will be adequate to push her along well. A friend has a Seekadett launch with a Gemini which weighs 15lb, and that goes very fast- longer, leaner hull of course.

I might put the plastic hull on ebay so it isn't sitting reproachfully on the workshop shelf!

Happy building….Ian

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Made a start rough shaping the hull. The bow is begining to look something like but the stern looks difficult.

Tony

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hi Tony,

Nice to see you back on build, had my guardsman on the water wich was quite choppy,

sat up a bit high on water line , but did not take in any water, so added a bit more ballest,

for next sail, and chaning prop to 4 blade brass to stop frothing , and a bit more scale speed,….

your build is looking great , looking to see more of build,….cheers Larry..

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Thanks Larry,

Keep us informed of the performance of yours with the new prop. The hull shape should provide for good handling in the chop.

As previous, i'm not the quickest of builders, too many other things get in the way. Next stage of mine is to finish the rough shaping, then add filler and sand to something like a reasonable finish.

Tony.

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Good morning Tony,

Hear are luanch pictures with the new mods , no problems new prop is right and performence with the 400 motor combo was bang on can get a move on at full throttle ,

but at slow end is just right , and not bad in stern moves but have watch the water intake ,

a full 1/2 hr sail no water in hull .see pics

john king allso had a day out , and a perfect day for sturmount,

cheers Larry………

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

PICTURES OF LAUNCH…….

A NICE BOW WAVE

IN A HURRY

ON PATROLCOME ON GROMIT

SURMOUNT

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Your launch looks excellent in the water, Larry. Gives me the inspiration to speed up the build.

Tony.

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

Hi Tony,

Good to see the launch making progress- looks like a really neat job and it brings back happy memories! I have finished the hull of Veleta and have just this evening glued and taped the deck in place, having drilled the 22 holes for the phosphor bronze ports I've turned- 42 hours so far! I must put the photos up.

Larry, your Guardsman looks absolutely charming out on the water. I could never steer mine in reverse- remember testing the patience of steering course officials on occasions. Yours certainly does pick her skirts up.

All the best…Ian

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Ian, glad this model is bringing back happy memories and Larry, I can only agree with Ian's comments about your model.

Almost finished rough shaping now, hull should be ready for filler and finish sanding soon. The second photograph shows an indent where the rear planks meet the bread and butter end which filler should rectify. Starting to think about type of filler and hull finish. Glynn Guest in his Ogdensburg American River Ferry (June 2013 MB) used domestic pre-mixed filler. For the small balsa yacht Jenny, Model Lite balsa filler from Hobbys was used, this was easy to sand and was easy to keep level. Bob used P38 on his bamboo planked hull, which I think would be too hard for balsa (unless covering a full hull as against spot/patch filling).

Still unsure whether to fully finish the hull (Kims friend has kindly sent details) or whether to semi-finish and apply card plating. Card already bought from a supplier recommended by Bob some time ago.

Also time to start thinking about a deck which overhangs the hull by approx 3mm, Vic's plan suggests a 1/8" (3mm) balsa deck which I don't think I will adopt. Something like a 1/16" (1.5mm) balsa base deck with a thin 1/32" finishing sheet of ply. The ply finish could be either lined or cut as individual planks, which method to use is still under consideration.

Looking at a motor, I was considering a 380/400 sized motor, but after reading Ron Rees's item in the June 2013 Model Boats magazine a small 2210 brushless could be a better option.

Tony.

Edited By Tony Hadley on 18/05/2013 20:20:00

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

Good to see progress Tony- she's looking great. Have you thought about LitePly for the deck? I have become a fan, and it seems to have a nice even grain which might be good if you are lining the deck. Birch ply often has a wide, wavy grain which doesn't look nice when stained and lined- in my humble opinion! Of course, planking is a lot more work-as I can testify, as I'm just getting into my stride planking Veleta's deck.

I would certainly go the extra mile and plate the hull- even if it's not really to scale, it adds texture and interest – but again, just a thought.

The plans are packed up ready to post, by the way- couldn't get to the PO yesterday as we went up to Cheddar Steam Club and had a fine time sitting by the water in the sun, watching and sailing boats- I actually caught the sun! I'll pop 'em in the post tomorrow.

All the best…Ian

Edited By Ian Gardner on 19/05/2013 08:20:23

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hello ,

Tony back from holiday , sailed guardsman at Goodrington, a very nice pool ,

parking a bit pricey, also had a trip on Kingsware Castle, a must do trip,

but forgot to pack camera , so no pictures to post at the moment ,

ihave a couple of disposable cameras to process so fingers crossed to see what comes out,

Ian i am a member of chedder , so you must be local of the west counrty,…..

Tony… go with 380 motor , i have a 400 in mine and i only run it at half throttle,

turning a 4 blade 35mm brass prop ,

as for filler i have used tissue and dope on balsa or you could try one of moden resin fillers ,

as for plating its a must i used .75 styrene sheet rivett punched , easy to paint,

gives a good finish, my deck is 1/16 ply pen line planking ,

your build is looking good, one little surgestion i would give the inside of hull a brush coat of resin , and get motor set up and ballest , before decking,

cheers Larry……

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

Yes, Larry, I live in Exeter and have just re-joined Cheddar Steam Club- lovely place to sail and what a nice new clubhouse. Maybe we'll meet up there one day- I will definitely get along to the members weekends- next one in July. I will recognise you- but I don't look anything like my avatar!

Sorry to hijack your thread Tony.

Ian

Edited By Ian Gardner on 19/05/2013 13:17:10

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Ian, noproblem with hi-jacking the thread. Thanks to you both for the suggestions, all ideas are under consideration.

Larry, I forgot to mention the inside of the hull treatment earlier. I was always a believer in not applying anything to the inside of a hull (I think Glynn Guest was also of the same mind) the thought being it allows the wood to breathe and prevents rot from occuring. I am unsure how to think on this subject now.

I knew a painter and decorator who owned a wooden garage and for years he only painted the outside, when he finaaly decided to paint the inside, it rotted due to moisture trapped in the wood. A builder for the Merseyside area would only allow a facia board to painted on the outside, base and 1" up on the inside again saying if it was fully sealed the moisture would be trapped in and cause rot.

Tony

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hi all ,

Had the guardman on new club pool on sunday weather was great ,

couplr pictures of sail also first time launch of north sea trawler,

my build nightmare , went very well love it now………..Larrry..

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

A little more progress with my balsa hull. Filler applied to hull. Decided to stick with Model-Lite as I have used in the past with good results.

Deck template made. Deck is to be Lite-ply as Ians suggestion (Thanks Ian). Material arrived from Hobbies in Norfolk and I was very impressed with the quality.

Tony.

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Hi Tony,

Coming on , icut my templates for bulwarks at this stage, moore room for scribing deck contor..

also step back in 2mm for better glue contact , and dont for get bulwark suport plates ,

hope this helps ………there is not lot of room on deck when upper works are fitted ……

cheers Larry….

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Thanks Larry,

There are lots of those bulwark supports (knees) to keep me busy.

Enjoyed looking at your sailing photographs.

Tony.

[Ian GardnerParticipant @iangardner62867]

Well done, Tony; she's looking good. We may well both be tackling bulwarks at the same time- I'm not looking forward to it. Veleta has knees too so they will help with strength.

Larry, how we in Exeter envy you your nice clear water at Cheddar- I must come up again, preferably when the sun is shining, There's nothing nicer than a picnic watching boats at CSC. Lovely photos by the way.

Ian

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Tony

Your point about painting the interior has given me cause for thought and I have been pondering the issue ever since you posted your comments and I am still undecided as to which is the best course of action.

I agree with the point about trapping in moisture and would concur with the non painting theory when dealing with timber that has been exposed to the great outdoors for any length of time.

However the opposite problem could occur with new kiln dried timber that has less than 6% moisture as this material, when not painted or sealed in some way will actually absorb the moisture that we are trying to avoid.

Perhaps a simple 'rule of thumb' methodology would be that if you are working on an older model with untreated parts is to leave them alone but with a new build using kiln dried timber is to seal all of the parts.

To misquote a famous historical moddeler…To paint or not to paint, that is the question.

Paul

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Paul, like yourself, I am unsure as to whether to paint or not. Perhaps a light wash with weak microporous varnish will suffice.

Been giving consideration to plating the hull. Came across this drawing of Jim Pottinger's plating detail from MSC Archer (free plan October 2008). Would this have been similar to what would have been used on the full sized Guardsman? MSC Archer full sized is approx 93ft. and the plates were 14ft x 55"

Whilst researching, the most interesting item I found was in the book RMS Titanic, A Modelmakers Manual by Peter Davies-Gardener. His huge Titanic model had over 2000 plates and these took four months to cut and fix to the hull

Tony.

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Thought it was time to post a progress photograph. The hull plating is part finished, 80gsm card used for this from The Works (as suggested by Bob), seems ok too. The top row of plates are best fixed after the deck has been glued on and the deck is best left off until the motor is fitted. I intended to go brushless with this model, but found a spare ESC for a brushed motor, so this will be the last brushed motor model.

The lite-ply deck has been roughed out and seem a little inflexible, this I hope to remedy by making a series of saw cuts on the bottom side before fixing.

Tony

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

That's very neat and pretty, Tony

The plating will come alive when painted!

Bob

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Thanks Bob,

It certainly makes a change from tissue and dope, with the advantage that this method doesn't smell the place out, causing upset to Mrs H. and family.

Tony

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Good morning Tony,

Coming along nicley, nice bit of plating , but isee no rivets, my deck was 1/16 ply very flexible,

ink pen planking, drive gear space a little tight , my batterys are each side of motor,

and i needed a fair bit of ballest to get water line , but worth the effort ,

could have sold mine a dozen times , keep posting pictures cheers Larry…

Edited By LARRY WHETTON on 28/07/2013 08:53:55

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