Caldercraft Sir Kay

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Build issue

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Hi, I am just into the build of Sir Kay from Caldercraft. My last build was the Jotika Victory, so seemed time for a change. Can't say I'm impressed with the kit so far, stuff doesn't seem to fit without much modification and the instructions are all over the place. However. I am puzzled by the arangement of the rear platform and its coamings. The solid platform supplied doesn't reach the coamings from the stern, leaving a gap. Is this correct? Or do I need to add a piece to the platform?

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Hi David and welcome to the forum.

The Caldercraft range of kits were sold to Jotika a long time ago now and have changed very little in the meantime. Consequently in many areas they can show their age. This can mean a little bit more thought and effort has to be put into the building but the results can be very rewarding. I once had a conversation with the gentleman who started the company regarding a fault I identified with one of his later kits. His response was "Well you're the modeller aren't you?"

While I was a little put out at first after a while I did come to realise that he was actually right. I didn't buy the model to "Shake the box and a boat would fall out", I bought the model to enjoy stretching myself to learn new things and achieve a model that I could then be proud of. I'm still building it 20 years later but I'm very pleased with it.

I do think vendors could do a better job of setting the expectations of certain kits a bit more accurately but, having said that, we are dealing with a market that has been diminishing now for many years so the luxury of funds to upgrade and improve old kits simply isn't there anymore. I think it is better that the manufacturers continued to distribute these models rather than remove them from their catalog but modellers also have to expect to put a bit more into the build.

Hopefully someone here can help you with the platform on this one.

If you put "Caldercraft Sir Kay" into Google and set the results to 'images' you will find a lot of useful links to existing examples.  Those on other forums may also be able to provide assistance such as this one:

Caldercraft Sir Kay link.

 

There is one also owned by a member here who may be worth contacting with a PM:

Sir Kay Picture

 

You might be able to contact these chaps as well as this is a more recent posting:

YouTube Sir Kay

 

Edited By Richard Simpson on 19/12/2021 10:08:19

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your reply. I have made about 10 ship models of various sizes and agree that they all require a certain amount of grim determination. I did the Artesania Bounty some time ago and had to translate the French instructions the English version was so bad. And also bought the John McKay Anatomy in order to get the model shipshape.
Even the very good jotika Victory had its issues. But as you say that’s the joy of modeling!

having looked at few pictures of the Sir Kay I have decided to get on as I think it should be as long as I looks the part. Thanks again,

David

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

You're welcome David. Feel free to keep us updated with progress. It's always good to follow a build.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

Frank Hinchliffe was a personal friend of mine and when he started up Mountfleet Models some years after selling Caldercraft to John Wright at Jotika, he was still of the same opinion that his models were for model makers, not airfix construction kit makers, and we soon fell out for a while,

the reason being that as an "associate" partner to begin with and was designing the prototype first 3 kits for and with him…..the Alfred tug, the Danny Boy Drifter and the early stages of the St Nectan, which i had designed as a "veranda bridge" trawler we would produce full size plans and more comprehensive instructions……..and his slant on it was….if modellers couldn't build from what they were given in the kit, they shouldn't be building his kits…………and this was his methodology from the first model kit he produced……and he never changed.

and because they had sold in their hundreds over the years because they were a light year away from the old aerokits models such as sea commander, Queen and other basic kits, he didn't see why he should change his ways……….and his favourite phrase was to modellers…."bullsh*t baffles brains."……and because of this we parted company as i didn't want my test model desighn of the lifeboat kit yhat i was working on, going the same way.

but volume of sales in the past shows what was needed in the modelling kit world, as his kits sold hundreds world wide, if no thousands, and contrary to what he used to say about theres no money in model boat kits…….he certainly proved differently……….but then again he was a true yorkshire man…………but a brilliant modeller.

but hopefully like so many others before you and i, these little foibles in his kits will give you the experience and confidence to build more difficult ones along the way, and even your own scratch builds or even designing kits as i progressed on to doing so.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

I once had a lengthy argument with Frank regarding the rudder on the Ben Ain. The foot is actually stepped out slightly so the lower pintle is not actually in line with the other rudder pintles. When I pointed this out to him that, in theory all the pintles must be in line for the rudder to rotate his response was simply that it works so it must be OK. The only reason it worked of course was because there was so much slack in the bearings that the misalignment of the lower pintle was absorbed but he simple would not accept that there was anything wrong with it.

He was certainly a typical forthright Yorkshireman was Frank but, when you got to know him a little you realised that there was a lifetime of modelling experience there that you could learn a lot from. As long as you didn't question anything! I even used to paint Hinchcliffe Models Napoleonic figures when I was a teenager and was simply in awe when he showed me his collection of some of his earliest figures painted up in a glass cabinet in his lounge.

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

he certainly was a man who took no prisoners, Richard…..he showed me some figures also……….might have been the same, as he told me that they had been the ones that featured in the cinema film "Callan" staring Edward Woodward.

I had watched it once but next time it came on tv i specifically watched it to see his figures………….but i was also surprised to see in the car chase where he was persuing the chap that he was to have a war gaming session with in his blacked out range rover, around the countryside of Berkshire, the actual pub that i lived in for two years whilst teaching in Maidenhead……….couldn't believe the chance…..the pub was and still is called "The Bell" and is in a little village called Waltham St Lawrence, and claims to be the oldest pub in Berkshire, and once put up Charles 1st whilst hiding from Cromwells army.

i ran the bar most nights for a big reduction in my rent when the landlord was out chacing his lady friends lol.

my bedroom was the top left hand window looking out over thevillage triangle and the 1000 year old Yew tree

[neil hpParticipant @neilhp]

he also taught me all about white metal and resin casting, and i eventually bought a centrifugal caster and melt pot to do the fittings with for my first kit, the Ann Letitia Russell that dave metcalf bought off me many years ago and now produces………i dont think that without Franks knowledge and selfless instruction, there ever would be that and other lifeboat kits and semi kits around.

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

Back in the early 70s (I think!) I was in a London pub one evening together with, (If I remember rightly, Dave Sambrook and Steve Kirby), and found myself being introduced to Frank who had brought along some of his latest figurines. Among the usual soldiery was a very nice set of ladies in various states of undress, painted and exquisitely detailed in all respects. We were all very impressed!

As far as accuracy of parts in kits is concerned it is regrettably the case that it is not uncommon for parts not to fit properly sometimes. It is certainly not a problem confined to Caldercraft, there are other examples. There is frequently a reluctance to address these problems as it can mean changing patterns and tooling etc. so you do get the reactions described above.

Notable exceptions were Model Slipway (now bought by Mounfleet) where Lawrie White did genuinely have a policy of continuous improvement and, more recently, the SLEC Fairey Powerboat range designed by the late lamented Dave Milbourn which were cleverly and meticulously designed to fit together with an exactness that would not be out of place on a plastic kit.

Badly fitting parts are an indication of the degree of quality control and should not be confused with the simplifications kit manufacturers often have to adopt with scale models to make them commerically or practically viable. Dave's compromise with his Faireys was to make the deck flat to facilitate manufacture and construction whereas the original boats had a degree of sheer. It is only noticeable if you are particularly knowledgeable about Faireys though.

Colin

 

Edited By Colin Bishop on 24/12/2021 18:18:31

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

It's Christmas Day here in New Zealand and I have halted construction for a few days now, having been driven potty by the Sir Kay locker. I tried one one just to see how it goes and I think I took it apart at least four times and still not happy with it. At least another ten to go!

As for the kit, I can put up with half the measurements being in metric and the other half in Imperial, although it is a bore, but the wood supplied doesn't meet the described measurements which is pretty basic and not really good value for the price (in addition to the shipping costs to the Antipodes).

I get what you are all saying about the attitude some model-sellers have or had about their products and their attitude to model-makers themselves, but I am really trying to manage my expectations about the level of quality in this kit.

By the way, I can't seem to upload any pictures, the system doesn't seem able to find any of my albums, any tips, please?

Best wishes for the season,

David (ex-pat)

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

David, from what I can see at the moment you do not have any photos uploaded. Can you see your own albums?

If you go right to the top of the screen the grey bar that starts with 'Settings' then 'Inbox' then 'Friends' then says 'Albums'.  This is a direct link to your own albums.  Press that and you should be able to see your own albums as well as create new ones, edit and upload more pictures.

Edited By Richard Simpson on 25/12/2021 08:53:50

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

David, I can't see any photos from you either. Did you press the 'Save' button after uploading?

Colin

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

I must be very dim as I don't have a 'settings' icon on my posting screen. There is one to insert from album, but when I do it can't find any of my albums!

Is there another screen I can't find?

Sorry to bother you with this.

D

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Are you sure you do not have this toolbar?  Click on the picture to open it up.  

 

Also if you go to the bigger Albums label a little lower it will open up all albums on the forum but if you then press the "Add new photos" text it will take you to your own albums list where you can create your albums.

 

 

Edited By Richard Simpson on 25/12/2021 22:44:30

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Hi Richard and Colin,

Thank you for the information. I have now found the right toolbar and made an album entitled 'Victory and others' which you may be interested in viewing.

I'll send some progress on Sir Kay if you are also interested. My first attempt at a locker box in the foreground! Everything loose fitted.

David

[Colin BishopModerator @colinbishop34627]

David,

Your Victory looks superb. I can see why you are feeling a bit disappointed with Sir aKy.

Yes, do keep us updated. Also be aware that Sir Kay can be rather top heavy with all those white metal fittings so it is absolutely essential that the motor and battery weights are kept as low as possible in the hulll.

If you an see opportunities for weight saving then take them!

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop on 27/12/2021 12:10:01

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Absolutely beautiful Victory David. Glad you got the pictures sorted so we can follow the Sir Kay build. Obviously a completely different type of modelling but still modelling and still a pleasure to rise to the challenge and build a model that I'm sure you will be equally proud of. The added dimension is that the Sir Kay will look superb on the water and give you a huge amount of pleasure watching it perform realistically in its natural environment.

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Hi,

Can someone please tell me how the cable gallows on Sir Key are rigged and what function they performed? As usual the plans are unhelpful.

David

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

David, I haven't heard the expression 'cable gallows' before so could you possibly post a couple of pictures of the items that you are unclear about?

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

Hi there David

As Richard has said, I myself haven't heard of the expression 'cable gallows'. However, I do know the terminology of fishing vessels and parts of them tend to vary around the Coasts of Great Britain. What I have found though are a couple of drawings and what I think you are referring to is a 'trawl gantry' – this is used for hauling in the nets. I am putting a couple of pics on to see if we are heading in the right direction to help you out.

[Richard SimpsonParticipant @richardsimpson88330]

Looking at the dictionary definition of 'gallows' it seems they are frameworks used for either weighing or lifting an object. Obviously used for execution purposes as well. I did find a reference to gallows being used to lift an anchor off the sea bed and ensure it stays clear of the hull, which might fit the 'cable gallows' description. As in anchor cable.

I think the most likely item on the Sir Kay is possibly the large framework attached to the bow for lifting cables and hence possibly a cable gallows.

We await with baited breath!

Edited By Richard Simpson on 13/04/2022 12:19:49

[John W EParticipant @johnwe]

hi ya there

The large framework on the bow of the Sir Kay is likely to be for the acoustic hammer which they used to detonate mines. Looking for more photographs to see what I can find with this mysterious gallows.

John

Edited By John W E on 13/04/2022 13:06:19

[Stephen GarradParticipant @stephengarrad28964]

When I was a lad, quite a while ago, working on a trawler at home before I went away to sea, we had "gallows" both sides so you could shoot the trawl either side. The 2 warps, or steel wire cables that towed the net ran from the winch drums in front of the wheelhouse, through blocks & pulleys & overboard, one from the top of each gallow. The net was shot over the side between the 2 gallows and the warps paid away to get the net opened up and running correctly on the surface then paid away more till the big steel inglefield clips in the warp reached the "doors" or otter boards hanging from the gallows. The clips were connected, the weight taken back on the warps, the doors unchained from the gallows and the warps paid away again. The doors would the keep the mouth of the net open. A slight turn would bring the forward warp close alongside and it was then cinched up to the after gallows so that both warps were effectively leaving the boat from the same point. The gallows appeared to be just an I beam type RSJ bent into a U shape, reinforced as needed.

Stephen

[David CreweParticipant @davidcrewe]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I have posted a couple of pictures which may also help. The issue is that there is no indication as to how the gallows are rigged with the cable, where it goes etc.

David

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