7.2 or 12V

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7.2 or 12V

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  • #64199
    KWG
    Participant
      @kwg

      Hi I have built several models the last was the Harvenstien fire boat. I have had great success using 7.2v and a mix of 540,560 and 610 motors. I have used 7.2v supply without problem, supplying water monitor pump power + main drive power.

      I am building the Craig tug boat which is about the same size as the Harvenstien and was going to use 7.2 v but I have noticed that 12v seems to be the go in models of this size especially when running lights which in this case is the only other powered feature on the Craig.

      Can you tell me what the main benefit of 12v over 7.2 is when only powering a few extra accessories like motor and lights

      Cheers and in advance tks for the assist

      Ken

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      #2574
      KWG
      Participant
        @kwg

        What Power to use

        #64202
        Dodgy Geezer 1
        Participant
          @dodgygeezer1

          I'm guessing, so shoot me down if I'm wrong…. but my experience has been that early battery technology tended to be low on amperage – so if you wanted more power going up in voltage made more sense.

          The net result was that 'standard' voltages were developed for various items – small motors and bulbs were 1.5 – 3v, mid-range 4.5-6v and powerful items 12v. You will find batteries matching these voltages from the 1940s.

          12 can deliver more power, but the extra cells are heavier. And the advent of Ni-Cads started to mean that you didn't need so large a voltage to push amps around the circuit. So you could use fewer cells and make the battery lighter – 7.2v became the standard for R/C cars where weight was nan issue.

          Nowadays the difference is probably minimal (though 12v will always provide more power, and it comes down to what voltage equipment you can buy easily. If the motor you want is available in 7.2v, use that. Though I suppose that 12v incandescent bulbs are always going to produce more light…

          Let the corrections begin…!

          Edited By Dodgy Geezer on 29/03/2016 22:42:10

          #64203
          Kev.W
          Participant
            @kev-w

            Not a "correction", but another take on it, is that in a tug you tend to need a lot of ballast, using a heavy 12v sla battery, saves having to use a lot of expensive lead to get the boat down to it's waterline.

            Edited By Kip Woods on 29/03/2016 22:55:30

            #64206
            KWG
            Participant
              @kwg

              Tks guys, don't know I could correct anything sounds reasonable and makes sense Dodgy. Good pickup on the ballast Kip. I used 4kilo of strip lead to get the Harvenstien down to the correct water line thankfully I have a bit which I salvaged from the window flashing of an old house for that very purpose but the battery upgrade make sense. Better to have useable power than dead weight. I've found the 7.2v will run most anything 12v although getting the lights running is a bit of an annoyance having to pull the power back to 3v. I prefer the bulbs over LEDs although securing wheat bulbs of 7.2v is very difficult. So I may still opt for a 12v supply.

              Cheers guys and again tks for the advice, Ken

              #64209
              shipwright
              Participant
                @shipwright

                Do you know yet what motor or motors you are going to use for the propulsion ? The only reservation I have about 12 volt batteries is that they are usually sealed lead acid (SLA), heavy and not good at supplying high current (due to the battery chemistry). So if you are not going to draw more than say 5 amps an SLA should be fine. But if your motors will draw more than 10 amps I suggest that NiMH batteries would be more appropriate. With regard to operating low voltage items from a 12 volt battery you can do this with a voltage regulator. I believe that Component Shop/Action Electronics have suitable units for sale (Dave Milbourne is the expert on Action Electronics)

                #64211
                Malcolm Frary
                Participant
                  @malcolmfrary95515

                  Because of its use in the automotive industry post WW2, 12 volts has become a standard for batteries and things that they power. The two sides feed on each other. Different battery chemistries give different voltages per cell. With dry batteries, NiCads and Pb batteries, 6 and 12 could easily be hit. When the usefulness of NiCad became practical, 6 of C cells in one pack ([email protected]=7.2v) was very convenient, and, for a lot of uses, became the norm.

                  A lot of battery specifications mention a figure for "Watt-hours per kilogram". Whatever the voltage, a given battery of a stated size will hold just so much power. Lead acid is near the bottom of the pile, but in many applications this is unimportant. In a heavy boat that is not a speedster, it does the job very well and is easy to look after.

                  Any RC boat needs a lower voltage supply to power the radio which could be a separate battery of the right voltage or derived via a BEC, either one integrated into the ESC or a separate one. There might be some separate ones available to derive 3 volts for your lights from whatever voltage you use, but beware of the current if using filament lamps – they are thirsty.

                  While you can run 12 volt motors on 7.2 volts (albeit with a performance drop) you can't go the other way without risking the motor which might not be able to handle the extra power that it will take.

                  #64213
                  Colin Bishop
                  Moderator
                    @colinbishop34627

                    There is also another point that is frequently overlooked when using lead acid batteries which is that they should not be discharged below half their nominal capacity whereas with other types of battery a much greater proportion of the charge is usable. A NiMH battery can be discharged to almost its entire capacity which means that it is effectively almost twice as efficient as a lead acid of the same nominal capacity. This of course will give you a lot more running time.

                    The reason that lead acids are still used in large displacement slow scale models is that their large size often means that even at half the nominal capacity they can still deliver acceptable running times in boats such as tugs which don't require very high current draws. And of course, as mentioned above, they also act as ballast. In fact you might say that the unusable 50% charge is in fact the ballast! However high capacity NiMH cells are also pretty heavy for their size too and go up to 10AH capacity although you could find this costs more than a 10AH capacity lead acid but possibly that the 'real' equivalent 5AH NiMH to a 10AH lead acid costs around the same.

                    One other feature of lead acids which can be useful is that they have a low self discharge rate so if you charge them after a sailing session they will still retain much of their charge 6 moths later whereas the average NiMH would be flat a long time before although there are special types which do retain their charge becoming more widely available in higher capacities.

                    As usual it is horses for courses, do some research and weigh up the options for what you want. There is lots of info on the Component Shop site which enables you co compare capacities, costs and weights of the various battery types. http://www.componentshop.co.uk/

                    Colin

                    #64214
                    Dodgy Geezer 1
                    Participant
                      @dodgygeezer1
                      Posted by Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 30/03/2016 10:29:55:

                      … And of course, as mentioned above, they also act as ballast. In fact you might say that the unusable 50% charge is in fact the ballast!……

                      In the days when getting adequate amounts of power out of a battery was difficult, it made a lot of sense to use a motor-bike or car battery in a big tug or battleship. You needed the ballast, the batteries and chargers were available and cheap (compared to specialist model accumulators!), and you had oodles of power available.

                      The only down-side was the weight. And as we all get older, heavy ships are difficult items to move around. Now that power is readily available in light-weight LiPo packages, perhaps there is something to be said for building big boats lighter, and using water ballast, filled at the poolside, to obtain sailing trim. Transport, launching and storage would be easier!

                      #64228
                      Kev.W
                      Participant
                        @kev-w

                        I've found the 7.2v will run most anything 12v although getting the lights running is a bit of an annoyance having to pull the power back to 3v.

                        Pulling 12v down to 3v is quite easy, it only requires 3 resistors to give take offs at 6v & 3v

                        tried to post diagram but failed twice, forget it.

                         

                        Edited By Kip Woods on 30/03/2016 21:17:12

                        Edited By Kip Woods on 30/03/2016 21:18:08

                        Edited By Kip Woods on 30/03/2016 21:19:17

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