Mtronik 15 amp ESC

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Mtronik 15 amp ESC

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28 October 2011 at 17:37 #32262
Bruce Mumford
Participant
@brucemumford61966
I am powering a small Tamar lifeboat with two15 amp Viper ESC’s. The Rx signal is fed to each via a y-lead with the +ve red lead lifted on one esc Rx lead. Problem is that the esc with the lifted +ve is ‘blown up’ after 10 to 15 mins of operation! Any ideas please.
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28 October 2011 at 17:37 #5144
Bruce Mumford
Participant
@brucemumford61966
Twin motor operation
28 October 2011 at 18:05 #32263
Colin Bishop
Moderator
@colinbishop34627
Your best bet might be to email Mtroniks themeselves. I believe they are very helpful.

http://www.mtroniks.net/

Colin

Edited By Colin Bishop, Website Editor on 28/10/2011 18:06:52
7 November 2011 at 10:28 #32352
Gary Wood 1
Participant
@garywood1
Hi Bruce,

I was considering a similar set up in one of my boats, two 15amp esc’s two 550 motors etc. I was told the best thing was to buy a esc mixer unit from mtronics for £7.50 and connect them that way.

Gary
7 November 2011 at 12:20 #32353
Telstar
Participant
@telstar
Hi. If you are controlling both motors off one chanel, ie not independant, you could connect both motors to one ESC. Be sure to check the total current of BOTH motors together does not exceed the rated current of the ESC .

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Twin%20Motors.pdf

Top Diagram on Dave’s drawing

Cheers Tom
7 November 2011 at 23:53 #32361
Bruce Mumford
Participant
@brucemumford61966
Gary,

Do you have any idea of what the Mtroniks name or code is for the ESC mixer? I can only find their V-tail mixer.

Cheers,

Bruce
8 November 2011 at 09:57 #32363
Gary Wood 1
Participant
@garywood1
Bruce,

The suggestion was made by a friend who runs a model shop locally, but does’nt have a extensive knowledge of boating matters, i am assuming that the esc mixer that was mentioned to me was the “v tail mixer”.

I am fairly new to this hobby myself and assumed that a V tail was a twin prop settup and W tail was 3 props, my understanding as to how they work is that the mixer or v tail will reduce speed on the inside prop of a turn, i.e. Left turn, slow or stop left prop and vice versa, increasing manouverability.

The other option depending on what Rx/Tx you have is to connect both esc’s to seperate channels and have “tank steering” thus removing the need for a mixer and any wiring modifications, but i understand it takes a bit of getting used to when steering on the local pond!

Let me know how you get on as i have’nt changed the setup in my boat from 1 esc – 2 motors as Tom suggests yet.

Gary
8 November 2011 at 16:53 #32372
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Twins%20Ver2.pdf

Chapter and verse on mixers here.

DM
8 November 2011 at 17:24 #32373
Telstar
Participant
@telstar
Hi Altho I’m not an ardent Aeromodeller I think that a ‘V-tail’ mixer for aircraft is not suitable for boat motor system. If you guys are new to the hobby, it may be useful to browes Dave’s website (Action electronics) All his gadgets and gizmoes are produced with boat modellers in mind, and are compatable with most R/C systems and Accessories. Looking at what he has to offer can give you ideas and possabley answers for problems, even if you don’t buy his kit.(Sorry Dave )

Altho I Know Mr Milbourn (who dosn’t) I am not on commission from him

Cheers Tom
9 November 2011 at 09:51 #32381
Gary Wood 1
Participant
@garywood1
Hi Dave/Tom

Are the action electronics mixer modules compatible with mtronics speed controllers ? as i dont fancy having to buy new esc’c when i have two brand new ones already.

Gary
9 November 2011 at 11:22 #32382
Telstar
Participant
@telstar
Hi Gary As I said previously ‘ are compatable with most R/C systems and Accessories.’ I use one of his Gadgets with Futaba, Hitec, and various E-bay (Hong Kong) bits, they are all compatable. Most R/C systems are made to the same basic standards only difference I’ve found is some are better built than others.

Cheers Tom
12 November 2011 at 18:37 #32417
mike farrell
Participant
@mikefarrell21522
Hi Gary. New to the boating club so did not want to expend too much money so hope I can help. I built the Fire Tug from recent plan and found the following perfect.It is sold as a RC TWIN SCREW MIXER FOR BOATS. It costs £14.99 . You can get it at ,

RC WORLD SALES

3 CARLTON TCE

BLYTH, NORTHUMBERLAND

NE241HQ

Mine worked well but you do have to have a 6 channel radio and reciever you .will recieve a complete plan with a very neat unit. I run it on 2 vipers and 2 tin cans

Good luck Mike
14 November 2011 at 08:51 #32424
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
We are unable to guarantee that our products are compatible with every other device on the market, although personally I feel that many so-called “incompatibility” problems have more to do with the users than the hardware!

As regards these particular speed controllers and the P40C, we have had both types of feedback – as you might imagine from my comments above. I would advise disconnecting the BEC from both ESCs and using a separate battery pack to power the receiver (to avoid earth loops in the system). Also set up the ESCs individually to the receiver throttle channel, using MTroniks’ instructions and the button/LED system, before trying them out with the P40. One common message from customers is that the Viper ESCs don’t appear to work properly with either of the MTroniks mixers (W or V tail), although not having had one to try I can’t confirm this.

Thanks for your kind comments, Tom.

Dave M @ ACTion
14 November 2011 at 11:49 #32426
Gareth Jones
Participant
@garethjones79649
I have used the Mtroniks W tail mixer in a number of configurations and it has always worked as well as can be expected – as I will qualify in a minute.

I used it in an Elco PT boat in the following configurations all with Mtroniks Viper speed controllers and all with a separate 4.8 volt battery pack to supply the receiver, i.e all the BEC leads disconnected.

1. Three Speed 500 motors with all three outputs from the mixer connected to three individual speed controllers – abandoned this because the boat was too heavy and underpowered. The mixer worked fine except that when you
went into a fast turn at full throttle the inner motor slowed down as
expected but the outer one could not speed up as was being demanded,
because the speed controller was already at full power. Hence the boat markedly slowed down and then speeded up as it came out of the turn.

At low speed the mixer worked fine.

2. Two Speed 600 motors with the centre motor output from the mixer disconnected and the other two outputs to two speed controllers. Worked fine except that the boat was still underpowered and when you went into a fast turn at full throttle the inner motor slowed down as expected but the outer one could not speed up as was being demanded because the speed controller was already at full power as in 1 above.

3. Two Speed 600 motors and a centre Speed 500 as a booster. All three mixer outputs connected to three speed controllers. However the centre controller had reverse inhibited and the neutral point set at about 80% of full forward using the setting button on the speed controller. Hence the centre motor only ran when at high power settings on the other two motors. This worked quite well but it still had the same disadvantage as 1 and 2 above. I am not sure that it is still possible to inhibit reverse on the latest Mtroniks Vipers, I have not bought one for a couple of years and I think they are now pre set with reverse operational.

4. The final configuration I continue to use is two Speed 700 motors and no mixer.

Apart from the high power issue the W tail mixer worked well, no need to set it up, just connect the correct leads to the correct receiver channels and control devices. Its a bit hit and miss which way round you connect the leads but trial and error works and you cant damage the mixer by wrongly connecting it, you just get some wierd and wonderful combinations of motor and rudder operation..
14 November 2011 at 13:02 #32427
Gary Wood 1
Participant
@garywood1
Hi all,

After disscussions with members of my model boat club, local model shop owner and all the helpful comments posted on this forum I am almost as confused as i started!

I am hoping that my proposed setup of two 500 motors two 20 amp viper marine esc’s and two 12v batteries will work with a mtronics v tail mixer, I have not heard anybody having a problem with this at the the local pond and most feedback for this setup seems to be positive.

If it does’nt work for any reason its only £7.50 that i’ve spent and i can always try Mikes suggestion for £14.99.

ACTion P40 mixer is a bit out of my justifiable price range at £28, ( sorry Dave ).

I will let you know how i get on

Thanks

Gary
15 November 2011 at 09:28 #32434
Dave Milbourn
Participant
@davemilbourn48782
The slowing down of a model in a turn is nothing to do with fitting a mixer, as Gareth points out. Logically it’s impossible for a motor which is already running at full throttle to speed up, so any method which uses the slowing down of one motor in such circumstances will slow down the model as a whole – even the old-fashioned “tank steering”. A more sophisticated mixer will allow the degree of mix to be varied so that you can achieve a reasonable compromise.

I have been unable to find any information on the web about RC World Sales’ unit so I can’t comment on its performance. The usual problem with cheaper units is that the motors work against the steering command when the throttles are reversed; maybe this one has overcome that.

DM
15 November 2011 at 21:01 #32453
Gareth Jones
Participant
@garethjones79649
This is going back to the very first post in the thread. Maybe its a bit late to do this now, but here goes anyway.

I ran my PT boat for quite some time with the set up as described in the first post. In my case I had two 25 amp Mtroniks controllers connected to the receiver with a Y lead. One of the controllers had the red positive wire disconnected so that the other controller was the only one to power the receiver. I had no failures of the controllers in this set up, but I did occasionally have a different problem.

Each controller was supplied from a 7.2 volt NiMh battery. The motors took a lot of current at high power settings, greater than 20 amps. As the batteries approached the ‘flat’ condition, using sustained high power settings would drop the battery voltage below the minimum required by the receiver and the boat could not be controlled. I resolved the problem by disconnecting both controller red wires , i.e. both BECs and ran the receiver from a separate 4.8 volt pack.

Maybe my previous post about mixers was a bit too complicated so I will summarise my feelings. From a personal point of view I would recommend a mixer in a low speed twin prop boat such as a tug or workboat where manoeuverability is important. However I would not use one in a high speed launch of lifeboat as I think the behaviour in high speed turns just looks wrong.

Gareth
25 November 2011 at 22:22 #32552
Bruce Mumford
Participant
@brucemumford61966
Hi Guys,

Well I eventually went with advice from Mtroniks, which was to lift both red (+ve) leads and use a 4.8 v battery for the radio. Fine went to the pond switched on, did my checks everything ok. Set of gently, fine, then eased open the throttle and guess what the U/J s simultaneously failed and left my beatiful little boat beyond reach!. Normally the prevasiling wind brings a failed boat back to the bank within minutes, yes you guessed it that day there was not a breath of wind. Thankfully she drifted back to the bank overnight, so now I am uprating the couplings to Graupner ones!

Cheers Bruce.
3 December 2011 at 03:08 #32606
REG
Participant
@reg
Posted by Bruce Mumford on 28/10/2011 17:37:12:

I am powering a small Tamar lifeboat with two15 amp Viper ESC’s. The Rx signal is fed to each via a y-lead with the +ve red lead lifted on one esc Rx lead. Problem is that the esc with the lifted +ve is ‘blown up’ after 10 to 15 mins of operation! Any ideas please.
29 December 2011 at 21:32 #32781
Brian Morris
Participant
@brianmorris30448
I am making a bait boat ,and using twin water jets .they have got props already installed ,however I believe they are the same pitch . Will it be successful if I use the p94 for steering and reverse,they will only be installed with centre of props about 5inches apart.or would it be better with a rudder ? Although it could catch on weeds .
Regards Brian
13 January 2012 at 04:47 #33027
aquaplaner
Participant
@aquaplaner
Friends..its too easy to connect two motors, two ESCs may be brushed or brushless, to a receiver in two modes..first of all determine that your used ESCs are greater in capacity, in amperage, that for a given motor. it must be greater than 30 % at least..so we got the motors and ESC..now want to connect them both on same channel..

all receivers are powered from 4.8 volts to 6 volts, and some can load up to 7.2 volts..a 4.8 volts is good enough, as the input circuit works about 3.3 volts..no range failiure..

so, here after connecting all motor leads and ESc leads..can find two identical three wired ribbon wire, to the receiver, from the ESC. after connecting the battery, to the ESC, a BEC ( battery Eliminator Circuit) supply will be ready at the tip of the connectors of the ESC. here two things are happen..the RX need only one 4.8 volt supply at moment..if you connect two leads with same power track, the power feedback will be altered while throttle level varies, confuses the MC of Rx..failiure occurs..and secondly, the Battery set up of the ESc may seted up to a threshold level, to cut off it up to a particular load..so, if you are using a single battery pack for two ESC and two motors, the power from battery will be sucked in to system, makes a surge, prevents the ESC from firing to life..

so, remove one of the positive lead of the wireset, from ESC, and connect it both with a Y connector..but make sure to use two independent battery packs for each set of motoes and ESC..
13 January 2012 at 04:51 #33028
aquaplaner
Participant
@aquaplaner
another easy way to connect two motors is with same set up, while removing one positive lead from wire, and connecting the two leads, in to two channels, that acts as throttle, in left or right, and the second one, just opposite the throttle stick. you can simply remove the spring and ratchet, by a simple twizer..

you can make your own ESC, with BEC, with mixing functions, differential functions, for brushed or brushless, up to any amps, works perfectly..it will cost me here about 4 US Dollars..and powering my crafts from years..so try once with connecting, with two battery packs for safety, and long running time..
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