Lipo batteries

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  • #84959
    BRYAN ASTON
    Participant
      @bryanaston57723

      Greetings all

      more stupid questions. I have grasped the bullet and bought a lipo battery and charger. I have read that the lipo should not be fully discharged ,how do you know when the lipo is close to being fully discharged apart from when the boat grinds to stop. With NIHM batteries I know when the battery is running out as the boat slows down, or comes to a stop , which has often happened

      Second stupid question , is it required that you have a

      Lipo safe ESC installed in the boat, or have I got all of the above wrong

      Regards

      Bryan

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      #4621
      BRYAN ASTON
      Participant
        @bryanaston57723

        Charging

        #84960
        Dave Milbourn
        Participant
          @davemilbourn48782

          Bryan

          Unlike NiMH batteries, which will usually run down and die without undue ceremony, LiPo batteries have been known to go unstable if they are allowed to discharge below 3.1V/cell. This will create a lot of heat!

          For that reason you'll find that any decent brushless speed controller will have a cut-off voltage which can usually be programmed on initial set-up. On the types I've used there is a default value of 3.4V. An audible alarm is triggered as the battery approaches this voltage; ignore that and the power is cut off before any damage is done.

          If you intend to use a LiPo battery on a speed controller which doesn't have this facility then the simple answer is don't.

          Dave M

          #84966
          BRYAN ASTON
          Participant
            @bryanaston57723

            Thank you Dave for your reply, I have a 50amp Mtroniks brushless ESC I will have to ask them if it is Lipo safe. Life used to be simple

            Regards

            Bryan

            #84969
            ashley needham
            Participant
              @ashleyneedham69188

              Bryan. You can buy little voltage monitoring widgets that plug into the charge monitoring battery lead, and will bleep when the voltage drops below (I think you can set this ) whatever. They are small and cheap.

              Means you can use a non lipo esc.

              Ashley

              #84970
              Dave Milbourn
              Participant
                @davemilbourn48782

                They are small and cheap.

                But of limited use if you are hard of hearing, and they don't cut off the power automatically. As regards the MTroniks ESC there's nothing in either the technical spec on their website or in the manual which mentions this, other than to say it is "LiPo safe". Quite what that means is not clear.

                DM

                #84975
                BRYAN ASTON
                Participant
                  @bryanaston57723

                  Dave

                  i have just emailed mtroniks to ascertain the 50amp is suitable for my use.ie it will prevent the lipo discharging completely.

                  I will pass on their reply

                  Regards

                  Bryan

                  #84976
                  Charles Oates
                  Participant
                    @charlesoates31738

                    Some of my older grey cells were triggered by your post so I had a look at their website. You can download the manual from the ESC web page. It states that you can switch between lipo and NiMH batteries, and that the lipo setting has auto cut off.

                    Hope that helps a bit.

                    Charles.

                    #84979
                    BRYAN ASTON
                    Participant
                      @bryanaston57723

                      Greetings charles

                      thank you for your reply, I have not yet had a reply yet from Mtroniks,I will see what they say,What puzzled me was that Mtroniks were advertising T10 Lipo safe ESC which made me think the latest Lipo safe ESC was different from my 2 year old Mtroniks ESC

                      Regards

                      Bryan

                      #84981
                      BRYAN ASTON
                      Participant
                        @bryanaston57723

                        Ashley

                        What are those little alarms called?

                        Regards

                        Bryan

                        #84982
                        Malcolm Frary
                        Participant
                          @malcolmfrary95515

                          "Lipo voltage alarm" seems to find them.

                          #84983
                          Dave Milbourn
                          Participant
                            @davemilbourn48782

                            There are several here Low Voltage Alarms but it's important to note that they don't cut off the power – they just make a noise and/or flash some LEDs when the voltage drops to the preset level. I use them to check the voltage and the balance of LiPo packs after sailing. Frankly you're much better off with one of these for an on-board installation Dawnmist Lithimon 234 coupled with a speed controller with auto-cut-off.

                            Dave M

                            #84995
                            BRYAN ASTON
                            Participant
                              @bryanaston57723

                              Dave I will order one

                              regards

                              Bryan

                              #85014
                              ashley needham
                              Participant
                                @ashleyneedham69188

                                BUT they are useful for when you have a boring Mtronics esc and use a Lipo on it, as wot I do. And are not deaf.

                                Ashley

                                #85016
                                Tim Rowe
                                Participant
                                  @timrowe83142

                                  I suspect Dave's comments in bold are code for "it's a no brainer"

                                  An overly discharged LiPo is likely to have been ruined and good ones are not cheap.

                                  Tim R

                                  #85017
                                  Dave Milbourn
                                  Participant
                                    @davemilbourn48782
                                    Posted by Tim Rowe on 20/12/2019 19:41:31:

                                    I suspect Dave's comments in bold are code for "it's a no brainer"

                                    An overly discharged LiPo is likely to have been ruined and good ones are not cheap.

                                    Tim R

                                    yes

                                    DM

                                    #85018
                                    Ray Wood 3
                                    Participant
                                      @raywood3

                                      Hi All,

                                      This sounds a very cautious approach, I've been flying and floating maybe for 10 years now, never had a Lipo go completely flat , surely I watch for the signs of the aeroplane not wanting to climb, or the boat comes off the plane, than it's time to land or head for the jetty 😀

                                      Regards Ray

                                      Edited By Ray Wood 2 on 20/12/2019 21:00:12

                                      #85026
                                      Dave Milbourn
                                      Participant
                                        @davemilbourn48782

                                        Ray

                                        Me neither, but caution is my watchword when it comes to things that might go bang! I would imagine that all your ESCs actually do have a default cut-off voltage value but that you've never quite reached it. That's as far as brushless systems are concerned. If you use a LiPo with a speed controler and brushed motor then it's more likely not to be fitted with this facility. However those in the MTroniks Tio range are.

                                        Dave M

                                        Edited By Dave Milbourn on 21/12/2019 14:20:31

                                        #85124
                                        BRYAN ASTON
                                        Participant
                                          @bryanaston57723

                                          Greetings sll

                                          I have tried to order a Dawn Mist Lithimon 234 as recommended by Dave but it appears that they are unobtainable, SMC dealers have run out of stock and can lo longer order them, has anyone any idea who still makes them or has any alternative suggestions

                                          regards

                                          Bryan

                                          #85126
                                          Dave Milbourn
                                          Participant
                                            @davemilbourn48782

                                            I buy direct from Dawnmist – two very clever ladies! Dawnmist Studio

                                            Dave M

                                            #85134
                                            BRYAN ASTON
                                            Participant
                                              @bryanaston57723

                                              Dave

                                              had a reply from Dawn Mist,they have no stock and are unlikely to make any more due to low demand.

                                              Bryan

                                              #85136
                                              Dave Milbourn
                                              Participant
                                                @davemilbourn48782

                                                That's a shame, Bryan. That is a super little gizmo. I'll hang onto the ones I have.

                                                DM

                                                #85138
                                                Colin Bishop
                                                Moderator
                                                  @colinbishop34627

                                                  Whilst it is important not to over discharge LiPos it is apparently also not good practice to store them at full charge so if you are not using the boat for a while they need to be partially discharged. My LiPo charger has a 'Storage' mode facility which will discharge the battery to the appropriate level.

                                                  As a relative newcomer to LiPo batteries, I can appreciate their combination with brushless motors to provide the performance in fast prototype models that would previously only been achieved either by I/C power or very sophisticated and expensive conventional electric setups.This is just what you need for the SLEC Fairey Huntsman and Swordsman models I have been building.

                                                  But for the more sedate scale models I nornally build, my preference is still for the conventional brushed motor/NiMH battery installation which gives adequate and responsive power without the need to actively manage the batteries to avoid some sort of potential meltdown. They don't sell fire resistant LiPo battery storage pouches for no good reason and I do wonder if I've got potential firebombs in the workshop!

                                                  I'm used to the situation that when a battery is neglected it just dies. The idea that if it falls below a certain voltage it spontaneously self combusts is something I find a bit alarming. Being more used to Lead Acid or NiMH batteries where the requirement is to maintain a minimum level of charge when not in use I do find the high maintenance needs of LiPos a bit difficult to come to grips with.

                                                  Colin

                                                  #85146
                                                  Chris Fellows
                                                  Participant
                                                    @chrisfellows72943
                                                    Posted by Dave Milbourn on 27/12/2019 18:06:59:

                                                    That's a shame, Bryan. That is a super little gizmo. I'll hang onto the ones I have.

                                                    DM

                                                    That really is a pity. I was going to use them in all my builds, so that was 4 or 5 for starters.

                                                    Trouble with the company is that they have a low profile. If it hadn't been for you I wouldn't have known about them.

                                                    Chris

                                                    #85150
                                                    Ray Wood 3
                                                    Participant
                                                      @raywood3

                                                      Hi Colin,

                                                      Lithium polymer batteries in my experience are fine no issues, many scare stories not heard of combustion at low voltage?? I charge them on a fire brick for safety. They don't last that long before they start venting and need throwing away, I have nicad s that still work 25 years old.

                                                      Regards Ray

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