Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Have been painting the flats (plastic soldiers, flat rather than full round 3-d, a style popular for lead soldiers years ago) that I bought from Russia a while ago. They are Harold`s army, and lifted straight off the Bayeux Tapestry (which is actually an embroidery). I have spotted all the poses of men in the tapestry, and am painting them in the colours as per the tapestry, a dozen in the set. They are just so fantastic.

​What thye lack of course, or at least if they were normans, is some long-ships, and with this in mind I have a hankering to produce some, via the vac-form method. I would have two halves and a sail….with or without mast I am not sure yet. I will be seeing my moulder and will ask him if the casting resin I have been using to cast wheels and turrets would be suitable as a tool. If it was suitable, then I can make a boat in two bits and a sail, make moulds and cast several sets, so perhaps three boat units could be pulled off one sheet of styrene.

​The boats, once painted in appropriate colours will look wonderful, and also be of use for the conventional sets of Normans and Vikings I have. Just possibly, if the sheets are very easy to mould and the tol stands up to it, I might speculatively have spare sets made for sale . Perhaps not of interest to model boaters, but the toy soldier brigade will love them.

​Turret for Sans P has been cast in resin, drilled, barrels stuck in and is being painted. The detail from the casting is very good, and even some of the small splits in the base of the turret are visible close up( not from two feet away). When I pulled the barrels out of the old turret (used as a master) I left the holes unfilled and these came out as little stubs in the rubber, and then holes in the casting, making drilling very easy. It is very difficult to mark and drill turrets with all those curved faces.

​Ashley

[Byron Rees…(Ron)Participant @byronrees-ron]

Ashley,

Polyester resin like we use in our silicone castings is perfect for vac-forming over. I think your Norman/Viking long ships as per the Bayeux Tapestry would need to be quite small or it could get expensive.

I have carved a wooden lifeboat, made a mould of it, then turned out 3 in resin which were then vac-formed perfectly.

Ron.

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Noel
​You will have to set the foils at a positive angle of incidence (ie the water flow needs to meet the foils from the underside). How much incidence depends on the weight of the boat and the design speed. Too much and there will be a lot of drag that might even prevent the boat getting foil-borne and it would be skittish at high speed. Too little and there won't be enough lift resulting in the same thing. The angle is fairly critical.
​Once the boat gets going you have to have some means of keeping the incidence positive because if it goes negative you will have a very spectacular nose dive. Remember also that your thrust line is high compared with a conventional prop. The foil on the rudder will have to control the incidence, support a good proportion of the weight and do the steering so it will be quite busy.
​The best of luck and don't forget to take a video. It will be useful anyway for some fine tuning!
Tim

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ron. Thanks for that. I will take a sample of the resin and show the man. It will not be expensive as he will do it for nowt!! BUT I am only thinking of boats about 10 inches long…the tapestry only shows about 8 bods at a time in the boat, and to fit soldiers in 1/32 scale, that's long enough. I was not thinking of a pukka full size long ship.

Foils….I think the high thrust line might be an issue…but we will see!

​Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 18/01/2018 17:58:56

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Noel,

Build in some adjustment and give it a try – what can possibly go wrong ?

Plenty of rescue boats available – plus we know those ducted fans work quite well submerged !

[Tim RoweParticipant @timrowe83142]

Hi Noel
​It didn't register at first but your foils have got anhedral similar to the wings of a Harrier jump jet. This will make the boat unstable when foil-borne. The more it heels, the more it will want to heel. They are also fully immersed which would normally mean they would have to be dynamic rather than fixed.
Interesting experiment nonetheless.
Tim

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Trevor has a foil borne craft that has quite small foils, and these are nothing more than flat strip with a taper fore and aft on the top only. The foils are set at a slight incidence, and the boat works really really well. The foils are set out some way on outriggers and this gives it fabulous stability.

​Noel, as the foils you have are aluminium it should be easy enough to bend them at the pond-side for experimental purposes. Have you sorted out a rear foil yet??

​Turret back on SansP, glued in place with marine silicone sealant this time, so I will not be able to twiddle it but it should help the water tightness of it, as water used to creep under the (old) turret and would have caused corrosion of the pivot screw eventually.

​I have three Victorian battleship[s now (have I said this before??) and they are all approx. the same length but of wildly different scales and styles. It is interesting to see them together…I may take a snap of all three on the water to illustrate a (possible…) article.

Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

"Trevor has a foil borne craft that has quite small foils, and these are nothing more than flat strip with a taper fore and aft on the top only. "

Ashley, it took me almost minutes to carefully contour the foils into those intricate aerofoil sections !

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

One of your longer builds then???
I can confirm that Trevor can carry out pond-side mods to his craft with the same speed….

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well I think we can look forward to seeing Noels EDF foiler getting a good thrashing tomorrow eh Noel??

​It horrid and miserable here (and that's just me!) so hopefully I will wake up to a bright sunny day tomorrow morning.

​Batts charged already, unsure what I will bring, depends on the wind. I may try and bring something unused for a bit, carpet carrier perhaps.

Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. Interesting point by Tim.

How about this then? They are attached so they can be adjusted.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Noel. Is there a fin on only one side of the rudder??

Will be looking forward to tomorrow. Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

It folds under like an upside down 7. Was superglued in place – which may or may not work!!

Weather looking poor for tomorrow though.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Horrible fine drizzle this morning.

​Trevor has spotted this plan on e-bay. Says it is a copy of a 1967 plan, I would have thought from a period model boat mag.

Not that you need a plan Noel (as you have a hull and propulsion), but the foil design is interesting, and the boat/propulsion is the same as your really. Presuming the plan build works, could be useful for you?? Note how the foils are spread wide for stability at speed. It is not clear from the picture if the rear foil pivots, but there is no air rudder….Likely the boat was a straight runner???   I would advocate a fixed rear foil, and put steering vanes behind your EDF .

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 21/01/2018 09:24:47

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Yup, looks like fairly bendy legs to allow for "trimming" pondside.

The tail looks interesting, popping down to the pond with a coat on as the car is already loaded.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

The ebay advert has a small section of the plan on it and the rear foil looks to be fixed, and also seems to have two horizontal fins.

Stood by the pond in the snow…missed Trevor (and Noel). Popped home via Trevors for a cup of tea and a brainstorm over our various projects.

Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

Afternoon. Seems we all went to Bushey at different times! I braved the rain at about 9am this morning just to see if the foils would work. Didn’t take anything else and no one wanted to come with me.

It kind of worked. What would happen is that as speed built up it would rise up. Exciting! Then as speed built up more it would rise further and then roll onto its port side. It nearly flipped at one point.

Now whether this was because of imbalance in the angles of the foils or just general instability I wasn’t sure. So as it started to snow I was getting cold and sent it out again trying to be more gentle with the throttle but no, rolled over again with quite a bit of spray over the exposed electrics.

Took it out of water and adjusted the foils to spread them outboard more (a little as per the picture Ashley found) but by now the receiver was soaked and not wanting to play – and it was snowing quite a bit so I packed it in!

Seems to be on the cusp of working, I wonder if the roll is imparted by the rudder foil. Might take that off and see if the main foils work first before sorting that one.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Noel , the flipping was undoubtedly due to the foils being of insufficient width, and a setup like the picture will be required. Encouraging that the boat DID start to rise, but then obviously torque reaction from the EDF set in, causing the flip.

​You must leave the rear foil in place or the entire attitude of the boat and foil setup will be wrong… the boat should lift evenly(ish) at both ends really, a horizontal attitude in flight would be the ideal..perhaps a bit of nose-up. Trouble is, the higher they are out of the water the more leverage the EDF has.

Every air prop powered boat I have rolls horribly due to torque reaction, the flying boats are almost immune it seems but the props are in comparison very small and the boats (with wing floats) are very wide. Actually you can see the torque reaction on them, but it is small.

​Ask Trevor about torque reaction on a twin EDF setup…..

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well well, has been cold and miserable not to say wet here. Eventually finished the box for the SansP. Grey household undercoat inner and white emulsion outer with foam strips bottom (to let air under the hull so it can dry) and strips up the side. The mast assembly simply fits in a bubble wrap bag loose on top.

​Spent time rearranging the boats on the large top shelf in the shed (14 of them I think) to put them in some sort of order, for ease of removal and putting heavier lesser used boats to one side and on the shelf rather than on top of another box. Rearranged flying boat storage on the roof beams so I can get boxes out without taking aircraft off their wing-hooks. Sunderland I had hoped to hang up but the high mounted fat wing and high tail fin precludes this. The Ecranoplan, with its low mounted wing is held upside down, and the other two WW1 flying boats, because of their one-sheet thickness top wing can be held very close to the ceiling and nicely out of the way.

​Formulating ideas for rudder control on the big project V, as the bow area is very tight. This precludes the use of a normal tiller bar side-side and I thought I would have to use a small pulley wheel and string/belt or whatever…BUT the original had a tiller bar running fore and aft (the normal arrangement on a proper boat of course) and I may try this, however it will depend if I can get sufficient amount of degrees on the rudder…and I would need to have some string going to the hull either side, via a pulley? or a simple vertical post? Due to the rudder arrangement on the outside, there is an issue drilling the rudder pos holes, and I have a feeling that I will have to drill a couple of small holes at an angle and then open these up with a file to suit…but that's a warmer day job.

​Unfortunately the plans, although they show the rudder side profile, show no other details, and this has caused some discussion here as to the profile of the rudder. I think I may go with a plain blade for a first test and see how this goes before making anything fancy. One other conundrum on the plan was a small triangular fillet, shown in dotted lines BEHIND the rudder and within the hull profile. Trevor advanced a suggestion that this MAY have been a space …scoop..or shallow depression, to allow a profiled rudder to swing round (Colin, if you could revisit this part and see what he means). All will be made clear eventually… l likely a couple of years time !!!

​Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Well, well, well, it's HOT in Tasmania !!!

SHORTS AND T SHIRTS !!!

A NICE COLD BEER !!

Ran the Sea Commander today with the brushless motor( D3548/4- 1100kv (no water cooling) hit 45 degrees at full throttle, but drop to 41 on cruise running.

Was dropping lower because of the electric fan on the car ESC.

I have a D3530-1760kv 430 watt brushless motor coming from Banggood, so the plan is to drop it in this boat and change to prop to a 2 blade 32mm.

This motor has about the same RPM's as 12 volt Graupner 600, but, with a bit more power.

The price is about a third and the weight about a third.

The plan is for a three engine boat about the 40" size.

HOT HARRY

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry You should be banned from posting any and all items concerning how hot it is over there! That screen shot was just the last straw. I couldn't post a screen shot from here because my PC is frozen up!!

​Long trousers and co-coa is the going.

​Presume you have a temperature device, remote, on the boat…or just a little thermometer??

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

The Turnigy Ia6/ Skyfly version 2 can give you with add-on Temp, RPM and voltage.

It's about 11 pm and I am still in shorts and t shirt with a beer in hand.

Your winter time in Australia would be lovely!!!

Also the new local pub (THE PADDY WAGON) was the old Police Station !!!

Interesting I ordered a Flysky A6 from Banggood( on super special) with an extra Receiver for $10 and an other for $13.

The transmitter unit also has a receiver with it also!!!

It works out cheaper than Hobbyking.

Must go and sit out on the deck for another beer!!

Warm Harry.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Cold and grey here but it doesn't matter so much as I am elsewhere today.

Good luck at the pond chaps. Noel: Top Tip…get a rescue boat working before trying new projects out on the water !!

Ashley

[NoelParticipant @noel26080]

I went down to try the foiler.
I had it initially with foils bent to a V on each side, but well outboard for stability.
This worked a bit, but it was very uneven and kept dropping down each side after it built up speed. At least it wasn't rolling with the torque.
Then I bent the foils so they were a kind of cranked L shape (a little like in the old picture posted earlier).
This was a bit better, but it kept coming up on the foils, and then the slightest jink either way to avoid wildlife dropped it back down – it was very tetchy.
Then it wandered off into the infamous dead spot and lost reception.

I did have a rescue landing craft standing by, but by the time it was out in the middle its grey topsides camouflaged it so effectively that I couldn't really see it well enough to manoeuvre it!

Eventually everything drifted over to the other side and it was dead battery anyway.
Quite windy. That probably didn't help.

So now I've got it just like in the picture and maybe next time it'll do the business.

There was not a mega turnout at Bushey – myself and Eddie and the gentleman with the square rigger – which was going nicely in the stiffish breeze.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Noel. I think it was probably the wind which was the issue. None of these things with foils or wings or skim on the water like the wins and choppy waves.

Ashley

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