Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Quite a nice morning this Sunday, couple of short showers, not much.

​Took the Hornet out to today to try it on a Lipo. Not much improvement, if any, but there again I had fitted a dog drive 50mm prop, as opposed to the 50mm Graupner Hydro prop fitted last time, and I am not sure that the new prop is as efficient. Certainly there was no rooster tail.

The lack of extra performance may also be because it has an ordinary 540 motor in it, and this is not taxing the power supply so the increased voltage/amp discharge capability of the Lipo is not being used. I will have to dog-ise the spare P50 prop to fit it and then we will see.

USS Ney Jersey also out and looking very small when Peter arrived with his huge cabin cruiser and fireboat.

Dave the tug, a welcome return (with tug) and also a.n.other sorry cant remember the name. A chap who used to boat at bushy when I was a lad!

Dent repair on Proj No5 progressing after a small bump on Tuesday, almost done ready for a coat of paint. I shall also have to sort out the pilot and windscreen now as the thing is running probably as good as it will run. Cleverly I have adapted the lid of its carry/storage box to act as the stand for pond-side appearances! Amazing what can be achieved with a large hole cutter.

Next week I shall be taking some of my big plastic boats down, the Fantome and so on, as they have not had an outing for ages. I was going to fit twin 850`s to the Fantome (as they are a straight swap) for increased performance but just may fit a pair of brushless motors. I would need to change the speed controller in any event and even fit water-cooling.

Ashley.

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 28/08/2016 18:44:50

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Is had a Sea Hornet??

If so I am using a 2 blade 32mm prop with a 28mm 1900kv brushless motor and a 3S 2650mah Lipo.

The Fantome would be far better 35mm 1100kv brushless and 40mm props.

One of our club members has one with a G60 brushless on 6s Lipo goes dam quicker than the petrol brush cutter he had in it before and quieter!!!

I found some marine mast vanish for one of my projects, goes on with a paint brush but so nice a finish.

48 hours between coats and a light sand between 3 coats.

I did not have to climb the mast, but, I can see why they use it!!!

The Tipsea wing wonder has had the motor installed, driveline and rudder.

Resin the engine bay and forward deck, out it the sun drying at present.

A lot more work on this one to do!!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry. The Hornet was an RtR boat that one of our chaps bought simply for the outboard motor and ESC (he bought two of them!). After he had stripped the bits out he was going to bin the hulls but I had one off him.

I converted it to a stern surface drive with bits from my spares box, hence the unnamed 540 motor that I fitted. So saying it is quite quick and fast enough for our pond, my guestimate on propshaft geometry, length and immersion depth of prop seems to be about right. I could fit some other motor but I cant be bothered to spend any money on it to be honest. Pictures of the boat are in my album. It is a racing catamaran.

I will file your recommendation regarding the Fantome motors in the useful info file. It is the Seahawk (see album)that would REALLY benefit from a brushless, and there is only one motor to change.

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Hobbyking sold the Hornets, I think the outboards had problems with flex drive and Hobbyking did not kept spare parts.

I have an outboard from the F3 cat, great outboard but no spare flex drive and an Aussie hobby shop has the spares.

They doubled the price in one hit last year, so $20 AU + postage, no way!!!!

So like you it's going inboard with the same motor (28mm 3000kv) with a 4mm flex drive.

I have all the bits squirreled away.

I start back on the Sea Raven ( the one with the project hole in the stern.

The false stern plywood had is first coat of marine mast vanish today (min. 48 hours between coats and 3 coats required).

Getting close to spring and the weather is getting better.

When to my test area for the weekend, three days of good weather and model boating.

Tested more props on the Sea Commander, but, ended back with the start prop.

Only got two more props to test, a 3 blade alloy 37mm (I think it will cause too much prop torque) and the 2 blade 40mm alloy prop from my white ocean racer.

I am happy with the D3548/4 1100kv 910 watt motor quieter, more powerful and cheaper than the 3639 1100 kv 800 watts( $5 AU cheaper).

The D3548 is rear mount with an inbuilt prop like blades for cooling, I ran the Sea Commander flat out until the battery alarm went off and the motor without water cooling was touch warm on a 16 degree day.

The car ESC was cool .

As for the Seahawk the setup in my Sea Hornet would give it a bit of zip!!!

Harry the Larrie-kin

[Mark Jarvis 2Participant @markjarvis2]

Harry, what is this mast resin you are using??? would you post details, make etc.

Mark

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Mark Jarvis 2

It is not a resin!!

It is NORGLASS WEATHERFAST POLYCLEAR GLOSS VANISH MARINE GRADE.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry has a good point on the marine varnish…he leaves it for 48 hours before sanding. Doing project No2 I left the varnish for longer than this…it does seem that marine varnish is more flexible than the ordinary stuff and needs a longer hardening period.

​UNLIKE the paint (Humbrol tinlet) I am using for proj No5 which is drying within a few hours and is solid overnight in this warm weather!

I have a latex figure to stick on this project and am undecided as to how to accomplish this; He is a head and shoulders figure for a small cockpit. It has been suggested to use silicone sealant, after making an internal support from Styrofoam. Generous with sealant inside and it will run down the inside to seal the gap/edges. Seems like a plan to me.

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

Yes, silicone sealant would work well.

I used thee drops per figure on the Sea Commander and after six runs they have not jumped overboard.

I was lucky with the driver, his fingers and thumb clipped onto the big brass wheel.

Tested a 3 blade 35mm prop on the Sea Commander today, that did not work to well so back to the 2 blade 40mm prop.

We had an old member from years ago return from the dark island to the north(Australia)and join the club.

Had a long chat about model boats etc., nice to get another member.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Tomorrow presuming it don't rain I will be taking an ANIMAL to the park .Roar roar !! (actually they DONT roar, I have no idea what sort of sound this animal would make)

Proj No5 has been proven and is in the final throes of driver provision as per last few posts. The silicone sealant seems to have stuck a foam core inside the figure ok, he is painted up, just need to do the cabin area. Silicone is a good glue as it stays very flexible, ideal for figures that may be bumped about a bit

Power for no5 comes in at about 80Watts, and this seems to be more that enough as rampant cavitation sets in at speed wot I am unable to correct, building as I am a REPLICA of something (well perhaps not quite a replica. but something that looks a bit similar!).
Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well to cut a long story short Trevor had his new project down, the Decidedly Dodgy Runabout (DDR) and there were shadows of a previous project present when it was motored out and nose-dived in the water, like a big fishy, when power was applied. I must say no one was expecting this, but should be easily cured by a small mod at the front…actually…by making the front look like the illustration. Considering the otherwise conventional hull of this model it was doubly odd to do wot it did.

Proj No5 is ALSO prone to this, but a quick jab of throttle lifts the nose sufficiently to clear away the bow wave. Trevor declined to try this technique, probably wisely. Other than this it certainly looks the part, and we are sure that it will be a flyer once the nose has been sorted out.

Trevor's other project (this group forms a trio on the same theme) was out, and now it has been painted in a fetching shade of xxxxxx looks very smart. This boat ALSO suffered from the nose-diving in the early stages of its test cycle, but is a creditable performer now.

​Iain with a new tug, tastefully weathered (that's what he tells me), Dave the tug (with a mooring vessel, very nice, moving crane, lights in variable configurations), Peter with a trio of small boats also present in a somewhat blowy water, interrupted by two showers.

I had the ANIMAL down, but this was second in the water after making sure the "rescue LCM" was working, as the wind was blowing towards the weed at the far end of the pond. Get stuck there and its too far even for my monster 10m pole. Vicar.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Tomorrow we may try the DDR out to see if hull mods have made any difference, and if so, to see how fast it will go. I am betting it is a little scorcher!

Project No5 is finished barring sticking the windscreen on, for which I need to borrow a dab of canopy adhesive. This is made for model aircraft use (mostly) as it dries clear and does not fog acrylic/Perspex. UNLIKE all those canopies on my old Airfix models which are all white, or mostly. The fingermarks from glue-y fingers does not help of course.

The shed is finished and re-shelved. Just a scaffold tower to get rid of and the flying boats to be retrieved from Mum`s loft and that will be that.

Project No1 beckons, needs a new main motor and one side motor stopped working…not sure why yet. It was leaking again, so another thing to do. Will I ever finish it I ask?

I have a very revvy and powerful motor from the old KM free now. I have a mind to put it on something…the Hornet would be the obvious candidate as it is a racing sort of boat. Not sure where to put the water-scoop though, as the prop simply hangs out the back. Perhaps I should get a UNIT of some sort? Or just make some sort of extension at the stern to fit the pickup…much cheaper.

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

The outboard on the Hornet was upgraded to the F3 Sprint outboard with 28mm 3000kv motor on a 32mm brass 2 blade prop.

I have two of these outboards with one on 600mm deep vee, it's a very quick little beast on a 3S 2650mah Lipo.

The upgrade motor is a 2836-3700kv also from Hobbyking.

For plastic and Perspex I use super glue gel works better than standard super glue and does not run.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry. Filing all this motor info away safely! The Hornet currently has a 50mm Hydro prop on it, this is the only one that seems to work, however the motor is only a cooking 540, nothing high speed. It may be that with an upgrade I would need a smaller prop.

.I have stuck the canopy on with Epoxy. The thinnest smear. Trevor bought his canopy adhesive over yesterday but it says "water resistant" not "waterproof" and as this is yet another very wet boat I decided not to go with it.

Testing was fun yesterday. Further mods on Trevors boat needed, but a temporary mod allowed the boat to show its true potential for one short run .It was a bit windy really for testing but nice and bright and sunny.

Gave Proj No5 a quick outing, more for photo opportunities rather than anything else, as the boat performs as well as its going to I think. My propshaft has a bit much thread on it to try a couple of my more interesting props and I need to cut about 5mm off the end. Never know what a change of prop to something different will make. I am running with S pitch two blade plastic props and want to try a much larger 3 blade plastic one. I know the pitch on these is fairly low but it is the size I am after for various reasons. A couple of snaps came out ok despite the boat being red an d this seems to be a difficult colour to capture properly.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Hi Ashley

Just been reading through my copy of the mag and came across a little teaser for the next issue……an add amphibian with big chunky wheels that don't look quite right.

It is described as the Terrapin and reminds me strongly of another amphibious project that you built.

Hmm!

Paul

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

I replaced the hot 540 motor in my dune buggy with a Trackstar 17.00T 2400kv which bolted straight it.

As the old motor was 19000 rpm I up the volts from 7.2 Nicads to 11.1 Lipo.

This add 7000 rpm for a bit more speed, what I did not look at was the old motor was 90 watts and the new one was 550 watts.

The thing is a totally insane rocket!!!!

So the 50mm prop may be OK on this setup.

May eat Fairey's for breakfast !!!!1

Sorrow Dave.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. Well I never did !! Who could be so bold as to build something even faintly resembling something wot I have previously built??

I hope that the builder has got the wheels all level and in-line, or that WOULD be odd!

​Harry. That is just TOO much of a jump in power!
Ashley (likes using up leftover items to build other craft)

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

TOO much power, never, ask the old boys from Top Gear!!!!

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Lovely morning at the pond. only Iain and myself? Proj No5 going well. Project No3 horribly unstable. I have built the whole thing too light. The weight of a stick Nimh battery is required and this limits performance a bit but this cant be helped. Upended it again and it stopped working, but is ok again just now in the garden. wondering if a much larger rudder would act as a bit of a keel?

Terry out for a bit. Was a bit extra slow and it looked like the shafts were tight, or the motors may have moved a bit. loosened things off and seems much better but may have to dismantle and possibly apply silicone sealant to motors to keep them from creeping. Stunning performance (considering) and the manoeuvrability of something with, well, great manoeuvrability! Tried a bit of extra weight at the rear and it almost looked as if this was beneficial to the top speed however it gave it a bit of a nose-up attitude at lower speeds.

Harry I would normally agree with you but the jump in power is of an order of magnitude that I just can`t comprehend!

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 11/09/2016 15:19:57

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

You do not have to comprehend, only be brave and have a go!!!

My Sea Commander has only 910 watts and yes I had it on 4S on Saturday!!!

Only 16280 rpm, would have go 5S to get to speed 700 revs.

Still working on the Sea Raven, started on the windows and on the Tipsea working on the engine hatch.

Also fixing a few little dents(super market love touches) on the wife's car.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Yesterday I managed to hang all the flying boats and so on in the roof space of the new shed roof. Fantastic, they are all out of the way and not using up valuable shelf space.

Have followed Harry`s lead and from the Seahawk I have removed the MFA 850 motor and cooling coil (with the aid of a crane) and installed the 3000Kv motor from the ex-KM Ecranoplan. No Idea what power this is, I could have taken off the water jacket to check the motor type but forgot. The Seahawk had a water take-off so the new motor and ESC can still be water cooled.

This means I should have more than enough performance on a standard 6-pack Nimh or a 2s Lipo, for a theoretical 21000 Rpm. Will wait and see Sunday if it is any faster, or if the prop for this size motor (Inrunner) is large enough top propel this boat which is a decent size and weight. I did have an X50 prop on the 850 setup. I shall try the new motor on an X35 to start with, moving upwards and using a watt-meter to check current consumption.

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Let`s have a few photo`s, Ashley, before you forget how it`s done?

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Will try. I think I need to change browser. Seahawk, from my album, gtoing 1/2 speedAshley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

HMM….put pics in album, they wont paste across on post ???

Pics….workshop, still a mess, shot showing increased roof space, pic of new motor in Seahawk. Double coupling used so motor can sit where the old one was without a lot of faffing about. It is tricky getting new totally different motors aligned properly in existing setups. For the use this gets I should be ok like this.

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

The 35mm brushless motors are the same bolt pattern as the 540 motor.

The one I installed in the dune buggy was, and the shaft size was the same!!!!

Two minute job!!

Only 7 times more grunt!!!

I finished the 340mm long windscreen for the Sea Raven, also 3/4 finished the windscreen for the Sea Commander.

Waiting for the marine vanish to harden up before gluing the bits together.

Started on the windscreen for Tipsea.

Boating tomorrow, weather about 17 degrees.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry, have not checked the 35mm motor bolt patterns but if you say they are the same that's handy to know.
The 3000kv motor now in the Seahawk should provide a performance increase even on 7.2 or 8.4 volts (my common Nimh packs) and it strikes me that I have so few models requiring 12v that it would make sense to change the motors on these boats to 1300kv outrunners, and simply use a standard 7.2 pack.

I have some small 3s packs, these are required for a specific model, proj No1, I don't particularly want to get any more large Lipo's.

I do have a project at home in the shape of the Turbinia, complete with 9 props. It was never finished because I dithered at the time regarding motors for it…. i.e., what would I need to power 3x 30mm brass props (on a single shaft)?

A 35mm outrunner would do this job very nicely. Not available at the time, and I planned to use 6v SLA batteries, as I had no Nimh`s or NiCad packs then…that's how long ago it was ! Having a bit more experience now I may make this my next project. It only has to be brisk enough to lift up the bow off the water (as per the classic photo), it does not have to be very fast.

The hull is sitting there, and the shafts were fitted however one of the centre single arm skegs has moved as the centre shaft no longer fits…possibly a bit of hull movement over the years and a previously less than dry shed. The odd semi-pyramidal funnel support/housing also looked a bit tricky but I see now this can be easily done using a Styrofoam foam block. It will run on perhaps a doubled up 7.2 or 8.4 pack for endurance easily. The thing is 4 foot long and about 3 1/2 inches wide from memory. Will see.

Ashley

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