Todays Boating

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

A 2650mah 3S is about the same weight as Nimh stick pack.

Sorry, Harry, but not quite. Component Shop show the weight of a 3S 2600mAH LiPo pack as 208gm, while a 12v pack of 2600mAH NiMH 'AA' cells is 308gm. That's 50% heavier, as near as makes no difference. You'd also be very hard-pressed to get as much current from the NiMH pack as the LiPo.

DM

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I bought a 9.6V AA Nimh pack for the first Ecranoplan as I needed the voltage, and these, according to spec, only gave 9A out…this was JUST about ok for the motor, and the thing performed ok. I have yet to try it with a 2S Lipo (now I have some), but I am willing to bet that the performance will be about the same, the Lipo giving much more current and the pack initially being at 7.8V and probably staying at this figure for an appreciable time.

I know that with a 3s pack it takes off, and this is no good at all, as it was not designed to fly!! When it does come off the water the nose takes off first, so just possibly I should try the 3s pack again but add weight at the front. At rest the craft has to sit very nose high as the tail lifts by such a lot due to the very high drive-line. I must say this took me by surprise when I first tested it….having the battery at the very front to give a level attitude to start with may also be an answer.

it is my experience with a few things that they only look right at their designed top speed, and anything below this always result in…issues…, wetness or a funny stance on the water. The KM Ecranoplan is VERY wet until at speed, and this is the same with Proj No2, not quite so bad, but its there all the same.

Ashley

[harry smith 1Participant @harrysmith1]

Hi Ashley

if installing the 3S use the battery weight and move it forward.

I try it with the Sea Hornet but I finally had to add a bit of weight under the front seat.

I started with a flat strip and ended up cutting it up in half.

No bow bouncing up and down, also rides nicely at 3/4 throttle.

The last bit of throttle the sits on about 1/3 of the hull.

Harry

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Harry, I take your point, but the Ecranoplan has such a massive trim change on firing up the motor that I had to have a big bow up trim. Unfortunately the wings generate sufficient lift at speed to literally lift the craft off the water but this lift is forward, hence the nose takes off first. I have a feeling that the thing will either have to be balanced to look right simply going very fast, or cope with accidental take-off!

​Hence the 9.6V battery is probably exactly the right voltage for fast operation without worrying about lift-off, but the AA pack is a bit marginal on the current front.

Yesterday both A90`s were foamed inside to accommodate Lipo`s, and the foam-flyer was tried with a 7.2 Nimh pack and then a (8v as it was freshly charged) 2s Lipo, using a current meter. Current draw with the Lipo was just a tad under 8A, and the Nimh registered about 7.5A (the AA pack was supposedly good for 9A discharge).

Unfortunately I can only fit a 5 inch prop so that the maximum thrust is limited, and the 2900 or 3100 Kv motors in any case are designed for geared use and will only turn about this size of prop ungeared. As it happens, a slightly larger craft would be able to use a 28mm outrunner (the engine nacelle on top of the fit on my boat is far too large for scale at the moment) and then some serious thrust would be obtained, but that's hindsight (and keeping an eye on storage).

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Sunday. Nice morning. Tried Ecranoplans on Lipos;-

Foam flyer..originally powered by flat 7.2 |Nimh…much better on 2S Lipo, quite quick. 3S Lipo not that much improvement?? expected it to fairly whizz along and although it was a bit faster, there was not a lot in it. 2900Kv motor 20mm diameter fitted.

A90…on 3s Lipo very brisk, showing no signs of taking off (unlike the last time I tried with a 3S)…why??? perhaps the very small amount of wind and waves was tipping the balance. What it did show was that the motor was taking 14A, a bit above its rated max…probably ok for a few runs.

A90 actually capable of taking a 6 inch or poss 6.5 inch prop, but the motor will not turn that. The foam flyer fin geometry is different, but could be carved about a bit for bigger props…the top motor cowl is larger on the foam flyer and just poss a 28mm motor would fit, and this would turn a much pitchier prop (both have only 5X2 props on). Such is life.

Devastation also out, and on a 3S Lipo!!! This does not result in a devastating top speed, it just gives very poor low throttle response…ie..almost ANY throttle has the boat surging forward. Full speed is reached realistically at 1/4 throttle!!! It was best controlled by the trim lever!

4 others down, and Kevin.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Unfortunately I am at a brass band contest on Sunday so no boating !

Popped out Tuesday with neighbour who has a digital; SLR and got some cracking action pics of project no2. All done and dusted now. Must finish proj no3. Difficult painting decision ahead…

Whats next?? no inspiration at the moment.

Ashley

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

To those who must stand and wait……….

Proj #2 is quite the most spectacularly weird and wonderful aquatic creation yet. I have only seen the photos but it will take your breath away. There is nothing else even vaguely comparable.

Ashley owes it to the world to release photos. Pester him until he does!

Dave M

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Too kind. BUT Afraid you will all have to wait…
Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Fiddled with the Top gear Hovervan a few days ago. Since the change of fan blade in the 75mm EDF unit (providing lift), the thing had become embarrassingly noisy. Not out of character of course in this case. Seems to be vibrating a bit and of course the vehicle is one massive sound box

The unit was a plain cylinder with a central flange, and this was dead easy to munt in a hole in the box in the middle of the floor, it just sits there on the flange , held in by a couple of ply "flaps"and self tappers.

This unit was chosen for its power, but I have a couple of 70mm units (with smaller motors), and they run very sweetly…I have decided, after experience by the using of, that I don't actually need that much lift power to achieve the desired result and so have fitted one of the 70mm units.

These have a "bell" intake end and no flange and are made from a very smooth plastic. I ummed and arred as to how to fit it in…but at the end of the day simplicity won out and a new hatch was cut with a smaller hole to suit the EDF, and the unit has been held in place with silicone sealant, This sticks nicely to the smooth plastic casing (roughed up a bit with sandpaper) and is slightly flexible to assist vibration dampening.

I have not tried on the water yet, but it is much quieter, must consume less current (half at least according to motor spec) and I have no doubt it will make the van perform as before with no probs.Result.

Work goes on apace with Proj No3, and I am having to freehand hand-paint the windows, as I cant see another easier or more accurate method due to the shape and construction (wait until you see it and you will know what I mean). Looks ok so far, not very close up perhaps, but from a normal "table" viewing distance is fine. I have just done the silver frames now, I can make templates to outline the inner windows with a fine indelible black marker pen before painting them black, a method I have used a few times and one which produces nice crisp shapes

If it is a nice day, then Proj no1 will debut on Sunday, I just need to fasten the flaps on, and charge the camera batts !!

Ashley

 

Edited By ashley needham on 26/05/2016 09:47:31

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Nice boating yesterday. Had Hasty out…tried a 2s Lipo but no improvement noted over a 7.2 Nimh stick. THEN the wind got up so I broke out the Herald. Pleasant hour or so`s sailing (if you can call it that) in company with Mick the sail`s large Dingy and Ray`s Thames barge (and Trevor's PT boat, which is so light it was almost sailing) (this is the one with the unfeasibly small brushless outrunner fitted, its tiny…but does it make the boat shift!!).

However, after 6 years, the inevitable is happening and the MDF wheels, headlight surround and bumper ends are showing signs of water entry and subsequent splitting. Its not bad, and I will simply treat the bumpers and headlamps to some superglue, and then a re-paint.

The new wheels however will be cast in resin from a mould I made at the time of original construction, but never used. It was so easy to turn 4 wheels that I didn't bother casting them at the time, but I did make a mould and it is still there in the spares box, so I will make some more wheels, as a permanent fix, as, I can imagine you are all saying, I should have done at the first offing.

Its not bad though, 6 years of use before any problems, and to be honest if I had repainted the bits a few years ago there would be no issues at all now, but there we are.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Fellow boaters…or do you??

Sunday..assuming weather ok

Project No1, yes, The monstrously large…. in the equally unfeasibly large box, No1 will make its debut..only a year and a half late but worth the wait. Rudders fitted and I better take the pictures before I go and break them off (again).

Also finally finished (but I decided against the curtains) is proj No3. Looking very odd, or perhaps not compared to No1 which lets face it is a funny shape in itself, certainly nothing like it had been seen as its debut maiden voyage. I have gone minimalistic with the body on No3. As usual a lack of suitable figures prevents manning of the …hatch, and so I have "suggested" the hatch with paint, but I di​d fit the engine vents, a tricky bit of marking, drilling pilot holes and then reaming out to a tight fit, so the vents stayed in place for levelling up etc and final gluing in. Iain will recognise the vents….handy, that spares box.

Appear to have a dead 3s Lipo,drained it flat…like, NO voltage at all at the plug….. after having been left connected to the charger (unplugged from the mains of course)????? Bu##er.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well, after all this rain it actually looks really nice out and todays carload will be as above…

​Camera at the ready !!!

Made a tentative start on the next one, Project No5. This is actually a sort of continuation of work done by someone else. This other project had issues as the design is quite unique and there were so many variables to consider, some of which can only be made by a complete rebuild! Whereas the other design was a good rendition of the available drawings, mine will have to be altered in the light of the previous development work. I am foreseeing that this project will have benefits for the previous one in that several of the mods are achievable as a retrofit, .

However since the previous work was done I have made project No2, and this has altered things somewhat re the drive arrangement, and I am hopeful that this will make a difference although as with all these things, you never know until you plop it in the water. In point of fact, it was mulling over the propulsion arrangement of the initial design that led me to the drive used in No2…both propulsion systems are a bit odd and it was one of the features of these boats that we wanted to keep, but unlike the previous project I will not be able to build in the adjustment that was provided for the drive and therefore will be using "best guess", according to the findings of the previous craft.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Mixed fortune. Proj No1 clearly needs more work, the kjsdfhjksefnjs part of it is not good enough yet and I foresee a change of motor for more power/revs to sort this out, and then one of the other units failed, possibly due to water ingress (although they should be impervious to a bit of water)a nd this meant the thing was spinning round uselessly in the middle of the pond. Luckily the wind was swift in delivering it to the far side and this was assisted by the sadflkfdghfnh; which is working but just not as much as I would like,

​On lifting it out of the water I thought that it seemed a bit heavy and indeed there was that familiar sloshing sound again. How it gets in the tiny weeny little crack I spotted beats me. A drain hole has had to be drilled in an inconspicuous place to evacuate all the water. BUT the way forward is clear and I am getting there….I was beginning to master pointing it in the right direction, and it did look very good.

Proj No3 looked good and went well, until I flipped it over….I knew I shouldn't have used it in the wind, but there we are. I may also change the motor in this one for something faster, as the weight of a Nimh battery I can see will actually be a good thing rather than the very light Lipo I used today. It was also eerily silent, unusual for the type of propulsion system used, and when pointed into the wind was going very well. I did not get a chance to play with the CofG but the battery def needs to be at the front. I may put trim tabs on as well. These will not be seen when going alosng and thus not compromise the look of the thing, but will hold the stern up more at speed.

Proj no 4 was running faultlessly, as a sop to the shenanigans preceding this ( how can you live down being rescued by a Hippo ???? I can only thank my lucky stars that it wasn't Kevin…..

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

a) the weather does not look great

​b) I have to be off smartish by 11 as have a concert in the afternoon to play at

c) have not fixed proj No1, or tested proj no3 (after its dunking last week)

Will be Proj No4 boating and taking the usual landing craft along , probably the LC(F)

Will have Lipo`s in tin to hopefully retest Trevor`s CORMORANT.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Sunday. Cracking day. started on me own so just plopped the LC(F) in the oggie, but then a few more arrived, including peter with a couple of real big `uns.

Star of the morning was Trevor, who had dusted off his FULMAR and was trying it with a Lipo to see if there was any improvement.

My word, its amazing the difference a Lipo makes, certain ….tendencies….were nullified and the thing was really whizzing along, the best yet we had to say, and even the nose was down a bit. Obviously there was some weight loss with the new battery but they certainly seem to give out the amps easier. In addition the boat did not take on moveable ballast, for the first time (and this was self inflicted, due to the need to provide adjustments) as these adjustments were no longer needed and the hull could be sealed up properly. Sterling stuff. we discussed further small refinements in the light of these developments, and also mulled over project No5 which does have something to do with the PUFFIN..or was it CORMORANT? I can`t remember. I will call no5…..er…..no I wont, it will be No5.

Spent half of today eze-kot-ing and glassing certain items for No5, as well as titvating the rudder assembly, polishing one bit and painting the rest. The drive system has been made, or at least, the bits have all been made, just waiting on a solid motor-shaft coupling to turn up before assembling it all. It is similar (and that's all I will say) to the drive for a.n.other project but I am fitting a smaller outrunner, it does look a bit small methinks, but is about 80W worth so should be ok. There is room for a larger motor if it all goes wrong, or doesn't go, in this case.

Meccano is a wonderful thing, and with a 4mm shaft size just like yer standard propshafts….

Here`s a question…if you were making something odd or even very early for which there was only a black and white picture for…would you be ok painting it in the same tones and not choosing a colour ??????

Ashley

[Ian JopsonParticipant @ianjopson21383]

I don't see why you can't make something to resemble a photograph. No one could quibble about the colour scheme – could they?. I have seen model railways and military models done in that way and they look very good. Must be a devil matching the tones of grey, though.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ian. A few years ago someone or other (the firm "vivid imaginations" spri9ngs to mind) made a range of Gerry Anderson TV series vehicles, UFO, Space 1999 and so on. One of them was "Supercar" which was done in colour (and the series never was) and then they did a black and white one, which looked really good, as it looked exactly like the telly version.

Nowadays it is easy to change a colour photo into B&W, but yes, it would be difficult matching all the tones.

A project on the go, for which only b&w pictures exist, appear to show grain on the hull, ply possibly, but illustrations are all coloured. I have just done two things in veneer and don't want to do yet another!! I will go along the illustration route

Ashley

[Dave MilbournParticipant @davemilbourn48782]

My friend Scott, who is currently renovating a 12"/1ft scale Huntsman 31, reckons you can use what he calls "the 6th June 1965" colours in such a situation. On the assumption that no-one would ever remember – or care – what the colour scheme was on such an obscure date you can get away with just about anything within reason!

Remember – if someone wants to prove you wrong then they will need to have the correct documentation. This will enable you to correct your model. QED.

I may be daft but I'm not stupid…

DM

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Ashley, the green with pink spots as discussed looks to be acceptable, should anyone ask just say the original was painted three days after the photo was taken !

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Damn ! I have put yellow spots on! The old memory is going

​DM. Know what you mean (the daft bit).

We are using "sufficient" artistic licence with this next one, anything is game as far as I am concerned.

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Ashley

How is your son, Berengar getting on these days?

He must be quite grown up now………..Have any of your interests or talents rubbed off ?

Hope you don't mind me asking?

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Hi Bob. Berengar had his 18th birthday last Sunday (I can`t believe it, already) and has just finished college at Brooklands (Level three aeronautical engineering) and is looking for an apprenticeship!

He wants to get a job with a company restoring Hurricanes and Spitfires, or possibly at the Bovington Tank Museum restoring and maintaining tanks, but this may be a bit further down the line yet…..

He should start by helping me make boats eh?? Unfortunately he is on the old computer mostly, but likes his model soldiers and collections of tanks/aeroplanes, and so on. At least he DID do things before college, Like Cubs and Scouts…archery, shooting, rock climbing, caving, making all sorts of stuff for badges, boating of course, making Airfix models, Lego. One wonders if todays kids will do these things if their parents didn't do them as children ???

I like to think that (eventually) when he has kids, he will do some of these things with them, dust off the old mans boats, make sure they join beavers/cubs and make things from kits & so on.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Been beavering away on proj No5. Some aspects of it have not gone so well, some Styrofoam items looked ok when cut and sanded. I covered them in Eze-Kote and glass cloth and even after a few coats/rubbing down they look worse than when I started!!! The drive inside the boat has gone in terribly wonky, but this does not affect it in any way, just looks odd. It is inside the boat so of no significance

What to take boating tomorrow??? Proj No4, a lander and something conventional, perhaps even THE BIG ONE (lander)

Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 02/07/2016 19:39:17

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Lovely morning at `t pond. Big LCM going well, Proj No4 going well and even the ferry goin well, until the end when the coupling grub screw go loos and guess who didn't take his toolkit along?? managed to get it in to the band so no probs.
​Peter down with Gentlemans racer and yellow yacht, Ray with his push-bike!

Loads of families about and the LC(ferry) had a good outing driven by half a dozen kiddies (needs a bit of retouching now), but sadly all craft lacking squirters for street cred, and the yacht even lacking "a man" on board. Tut Tut.

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

but sadly all craft lacking squirters for street cred

Ashley

I realise that I am probably well behind the times but whilst I can make an educated guess about the meaning of 'street cred' I must confess to be all at sea regarding 'squirters' in fact my best guess goes back to my last time in London when I had a pint of Watneys Red Barrel, as you can tell from the reference I suffered a very unfortunate after effect from drinking this unusual brew.

Paul

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