Todays Boating

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

LB. See what you mean.

I build these things "on spec" and can visualise in my minds eye how they are going to work. This is partly experience and partly blind faith. I am of course stuck with the design of craft I am trying to emulate, and so there is limited scope for serious modification without veering from the original before it becomes too far removed.

Trevor`s little Bond car was of a great assistance here oddly enough, although I didn't say anything at the time as I didn't want to steal his thunder by building essentially the same thing and only revealed mine after he had completed his. I must say I did feel a bit guilty about this and apologised profusely as I didn't want anyone to think I was pinching ideas, however it was just bad timing that TopGear produced that program at the same time.

Trevor`s car was designed to zoom along the surface, and had the four flipper arrangement of the original. His idea was that by twisting the flippers upwards it would keep it on the top like a hydroplane(ish), twisting them downwards and using the VAST power at his disposal, it would dive under water, but only as a "zoom" dive, just to give weight to the 007 submarine aspect of the craft. Unfortunately this has proved to be only partially successful, but did point the way insomuch as it was attempting to dive quite nicely on its own as soon as the nose caught the water…the long sloping bonnet and windscreen becomes one big dive plane, and I suddenly saw that I had sufficient proof to suppose that a large heavy craft would dive ok.

Weight is the key here, Trevor`s was no where near heavy enough to dive "properly", and nor was mine until I added vast amounts of sheet lead. I had supposed that the Lotus would need several bashes at ballasting and so on, but in the end it went down almost as soon as throttle is applied, and stays underwater to a degree that is incredible for a dynamic dive craft. Once the throttle is set it stays about 3 or 4 inches under easily….all a fluke and just luck.

By contrast project no1 works, and achieves substantially the look I was after, but has required massive amounts of mods to the degree that I was beginning to think it simply wouldn't work unless I spent vast amounts of money on exotic equipment and "hidden" mods. I am still tinkering with No1, and have still a few things to try to "up" the performance, but it was touch and go on something that should have worked easily considering other factors I have seen at work on the pond. You never know, but this was a close call to the dustbin.

I have said it before. building them is easy, getting them to work…

Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Hmmm, Ashley with a quackers secret project, yup that sounds right.

Took a couple of photos of the corvette, shouldbe able to put photos on my profile tomorrow. Progress fairly swift as the hull is about one third planked now and received appreciative "oohs" and "ahhs" from family members yesterday. The spring should be pretty busy boat wise as I have set myself the task of building a couple of landers for D-day too.

Sunday mornings at Bushey park are indeed enjoyable as nobody seems to take it too seriously and the variety of floating / sinking craft (not all boats) adds to the fun.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Have started cutting plywood for proj no5 (remembering I only have project no3 as a work-in-progress , the others have been finished) and ALREADY have drilled too many holes and in the wrong place and not cut out sufficient bits for clearance for motors and so on. This project is a pale imitation of something that has already appeared in the mag however is novel , possibly, and will feature something worth featuring and be also in the novel department. It will completely devoid of the main working feature for this …design… but as in previous similar things I have built I have seen that this particular omission will not in fact be much of an issue.

The only issue as I see it is sufficient power given the design constraints but that's the fun eh!

Tomorrow I shall be taking the Invincible and attendant Type22 Boxer and possibly nothing else, it is likely to be too cold for much fiddling at the pond side.

We shall all be looking forward to some ICE on the pond soon, as a variety of designs have been built or dusted off over the "weed weeks" this year and all will make great ice craft, even project no4! (that duck). I am reminded that there is a vast body of technical excellence at the pond, given the wide variety of craft seen at any one time and newby forum members within striking distance should come down and make their presence known!

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Todays boating. A bit brisk, and ice on the pond!!! Had the Invincible and T22 both not the best for ice. Luckily Young Barry had got there early and cleared some ice, so we had a very reasonable are to play in.

Berry has been struggling with a large powerful black speed boat lately, it will not put the power into the water in order to get going and plane, there was too much cavitation, however a full width shelf seems to have effected a partial cure in stopping air getting to the prop and it is showing strong signs of performing..given bit of a run up.

Peter was there with his new cat hulled JET BOAT, or at least, a ducted fan unit. Despite having been built to some plan or other this is suffering from the dreaded NOSE DIVE syndrome..as soon as any power is applied the nose dives. It appears to either need the battery moving to the very rear (difficult as there is no depth of hull in the centre after the jet exit, or more buoyancy at the front. This could be managed in a variety of ways and we discussed the merits of the various suggestions, but ultimately only a proper test with whatever mods are effected will sort it out. Barry did bully Pete to get the boat on the ice nevertheless, and what a performer then!! no control of course.

A bit sparse on the boating front probably due to the cold and just after xmas.

NEXT week I feel the Fantome being kept on ice breaking standby duties and a selection of ice capable Ecranoplan`s and so on may be the order of the day..

Proj no5 has had the extra holes filled, bits cut out that should have been cut out before, patches put in place to cover the bandsaw slots and finally a couple of patches fitted to rectify the cut outs that shouldn't have been.

Ashley

[Malcolm FraryParticipant @malcolmfrary95515]

What a difference in different bits of the country. Yesterday was sunny with light winds, so I was tempted out of hibernation to my pond at Fairhaven. Just a nice breeze for my Victoria, took it for a full circumnavigation (1 mile walk) and even got it through the two dead bits where the bare twigs that call themselves trees at this time of year still filter the wind out. Ice is rare there, it being salt.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Chaps and chappesses. The weather is so manky at the minute; I cannot see that there may be any boating tomorrow. If I go it may be SLA batteried craft only so not bothering to charge Nim`s up.

On the other hand, having had a the days off after the new year I have been able to plod on with proj no5 !

Certain dimensions are too generous for true scale and this is due to the availability of certain items crucial to this build, but having now reached a stage where the fitting , or at least, test fitting of these items is possible I have propped everything up and it does not look as XXXXX as I had feared.

The Props and tubes I was going to use were left over from another item, and I had thought they were 3mm shaft size, but having got a bit OF 3mm rod they are LESS than 3mm !! It seems a waste to not use these nice cast 25mm units, but I am now considering having some more shafts made to suit. This would in fact save a lot of aggro as I would not have to fiddle about to accommodate items simple because I have them, I can get items to suit the space and shape available. Much easier.

Ashley

[peter ward 9Participant @peterward9]

hope to try out latest jet boat again, now with additional (temporary polystyrene) boyancy in place.

if successful then can be made into a permanet fixing …. plus latest project based on vic smeed plan VIVACITY

but with some modifications down for first floatation test , at 54 inches too big for my bath !

[Tony HadleyParticipant @tonyhadley]

Peter,

Will you be posting photographs of your Vivacity? it would be nice to see, especially on the water shots. On the forum, we have thread about Vic's Model Boat designs – **LINK**

Tony

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Todays boating. Jolly cold! No ice though. took the LCT1 out along with the Titanic, however could not be bothered to get Titanic out of the box, fingers too cold. Water well over the concrete jetty, something I have not seen before, and considering the water table is managed in the park by sluices in the Longford river (that feeds the park) and so on just shows how much extra water there is about.

What a lark today.

Top billing (or perhaps second) Must go to peter for his jet-boat. This is driven by a 70mm brushless EDF unit, and is a cat design. A few weeks ago I may have mentioned there was an issue with nose diving under moderate throttle…and so an expanded polystyrene infill had been wedged in for experimental purposes, and this helped but of course it was obviously adding masses of drag, despite some nifty knife work in trimming the polystyrene. After adding about 190g of lead to the rear it did indeed work much better and WITHOUT the polystyrene! BUT we thought there was still some way to go, and some more mods are planned. Watch this space. Ice runners have been fitted, just in case..

The Vivacity is a monster 54 inches long and I don't know how wide. Hull only so far, as Peter wanted to test the motor out. What a beast!! and fast with it. Problem with the rudder overturning the servo arms and rod prevented a decent fast test, but a small thing and easily cured; Peter has made a two smaller rudders to try, the one fitted was as per (scaled up) plan but is obviously just too big.

Ray had his Scharnhorst out and looking almost finished, Barry had a his 48 inch fire tender and Perkasa, Chris had the Supply boat and a yellow fast`n`pointless and finally but not least Trevor (small tug), but paying close attention to the vivacity. "oh he said, it is just like half of the corvette" which truly bought home the size of the boat Trevor is building…

Consensus is that the cold might last and so everyone is on ice alert and no doubt next week will see the weed free collection we have been building up over the hot summer (dual purpose…hot and cold weather)

Pictures next week if I remember!

Ashley

[peter ward 9Participant @peterward9]

tony

hope to supply photographic evidence in the near future, though may have to press ashley into giving assistance especially on the technical side as my home computer not that super duper.

never the less as asheley has reported the vic smeed plan of VIVACITY does produce a large model by any ones standard at 54 inches length and 17 inch beam at the widest point. i will be varying the superstructure from the original plan only for my own taste as there is nothing wrong with vic s version , but i guess every one likes to make their own impression on things. i very rarely follow the plans to the letter ( sometimes having to eat humble pie after it all goes wrong! )

i had an unforseen problem with the rudder layout, the plan shows a large U shaped rudder with the stem/rudder post located almost in the center of the rudder blade. i adopted almost the same design only with a more "modern" shape as per the universaly produced ready to use items as advertised on most outlets but with the rudder post located slightly more forward from the middle of the rudder blade. this still was not any good, possibly due to the amount of servo throw because as soon as any amount of turn of the model was attempted at even half speed the ( i think) large area of the rudder blade was pulling the servo horn over center and left the rudder at 90 degrees to the model and no steering at all!!

on getting home the rudder had been bent out of true by some 15 degrees from vertical presumably from sheer water pressure on it as i had been going round in circles, then on thinking about thing i ve put this down to my school boy error of brazing the rudder blade on to a mild steel shaft with out re tempering it i could bend it though not easily but could be done with your fingers and rudder shaft is 5 mm steel.

original VIVACITY plan calls for 35 cc JAP I C engine and with the large rudder layout was this meant for straight running only ? there certainly is no mention made for location of R/C equipment.

anyway MKII rudder arrangement now in production, so hopefully will not have to rely on barry s fishing rod for rescue .

rgds

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

The weather forecast for Sunday looks promising so I am getting ready now, any pondside donations of the square plastic milk jugs (with lids) will be greatly received.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Remote control DUCK as previously snapped by Kimo this Sunday and A.N.Other, yet to be decoded. poss the foam flyer.

getting ready….to sail !!!???

We use loads of milk bttles (plastic) at work unfortunately all 4 pinters..

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Todays boating. A bit cold, and suspecting ICE I took the Fantome. LCT1 and the "duck". Unfortunately, or indeed fortunatelky there was NO ice , only a bit in the side stream. LCT did not make it out the car.

First off, Trevor bought the hull of his 2m corvette down, and what a whopper!! We floated it and filled up the available milk cartons with water but it was no where near enough to sink it to the approx waterline, fair enough as only 8 or so bottles wee in evidence however I was wondering whether there would be room for any more? It may be that trevor will have to resort to , say, removable fitted concrete shapes. i have 4 dead 12v 7Ahr SLA batteries he can use (small for the weight) and I think he is planning a couple as the electrical power…

Pictures and plse remember these are pictures of an as yet unfinished hull and indeed there are I believe a few more planks at the top and bulwarks etc to be fitted, and so the length ways snaps the hull being bent is indeed an optical illusion, and all is as it should be.

Pete had his jet boat down, (70mm EDF) and had widened the front of the hulls a bit and now the boat is sitting with a nose up attitude and the nosediving-under-power has stopped. Bit more work to do.

Several others down and we did leave a bit sharply as our collective tootsies were freezing over.

Ashley

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By ashley needham on 12/01/2014 13:34:09

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Yup, very much a work in progress, just about fits in the car diagonally, hence the need for the hull division. Seen alongside the 24" MTB (Model Boats free plan) at the same scale gives a reasonable impression of size.

Need to fill a couple of holes ready for next ballasting trial (with the milk bottles filled with gravel and topped up with sand), I want to make sure the hull is water tight before fitting the decks, then I can start constructing the superstructure.

Still undecided about the upperworks layout and armament, it seems that there was such a variety there is no "correct" answer, so a generic look is the aim.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Trevor. Just in case I forget to mention it Sunday there is a very nicely built "Bluebell" in the hall we rehearse in on Wednesday evenings (matchbox kit or whatever) in Hampton wick.

You may, perhaps later on when doing the upperworks, like to come down and have a look. Its always clearer to see what you want to fit, on a model rather than pictures or your plan.

Undecided as to what to bring tomorrow. Probably project DUCK as this is the new toy, may bring Titanic as it came out the other week but didnt get a sail. Plus one other.. Hornet perhaps.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

WELL, Nice crisp sunny day at the pond.

Titanic, Hornet..going well and teh DUCK all had an outing. However, I have a numb fingy now after breaking ..something..on the Duck..I do appear to have an intermittant 7.2v batt, and having connected it (this was for the second run) the DUCK did not work and so I reached in to twiddle the battery connection and.. ow!! Need a trip to Mich Charles models to order another THING and a spare. Easy job to replace though..hopefully..does not need an engine out, a one screw job.

Trevor had the monster corvette down for another quick float (and a tow from his small tug..very amusing) and we spotted only two v small leaks. However the ballast situation may need a rethink on the milk bottle front (filled with gravel this time) as there MAY not be enough room for enough cartons and so some lead, or whatever may be needed. A bit like my Lotus..after all that work on it there was not enough room to fit sufficient lead inside and I had that horrid stomach sinking sensation that possibly I may have erred and the thing would never work…

He has loads of room though for lead if thats what it takes, it is more a case of getting the best combination and location rather than oh! help and lead is expensive.

Andy Ray Ian Barry Chris down. Ray had his big thames barge down, and nesting in the hold was a v small thames barge !! 12 inches possibly overall.. very sweet and its first outing, and indeed a successful first outing, just enough breeze and showing more than adequate stability. The real test will be in a bit of wind, but we will see!

A prop from Andy`s tine hydroplane fell off (flexishaft broke) but by a spot of good fortune was spotted glinting in the sun just three feet from the jetty, luckily again the water is very clear. Andy donned waders and retrieved the prop. We had cameras ready but unfortunately.. The purchase of the waders even just for this one recovery have probably just paid for themselves (Berylium super duper prop)

Finger regaining sensitivity now, offending item off and I shall be surfing for a spare soon.

Project no5 coming on, at the "splashing on some paint" stage and things are looking much better, covering all the glue and filler in a uniform grey (undercoat) and restoring a bit of order. Motors and props have been fitted and the various openings and so on glued up and possibly next week i may be able to have a float ! A few details for the underside have been added and when painted these will look quite adequate. I am having to make these bits a bit larger than they should be so they will stand up to underwater..accidents..with logs and so on. Also need to keep these to a minimum to minimise drag, I dont have a lot of power to play with as eventually you will see, and the propulsion set up is a bit unusual, and may be less than efficient, but the item is not meant to be particularly fast.

Ashley

[peter ward 9Participant @peterward9]

due to shifts at work my sunday morning boating took place on wednesday afternoon this week.

But it was a nice afternoon, and hey car park almost empty and not another boater in sight ! so asa billy no mates i continued with some more testing on my own.

first EDF powered jet boat , originally as per plan this suffered nose diving when applying any significant power

modification 1. moved motor etc as far back as possible result.. no change

modification 2. void between sponsons filled with polystyrene for added boyancy this worked but also resulted in horrendous drag top speed 1 mph max!!

modification3. added weight to rear to tilt front up a bit. without and extra boyancy at front, this did work but in trying to do with out added weight mod 4 was tried

modification 4 front third of the sponsons extended width wise for extra boyancy and hopefully without the extra drag this did work and i should have left it as it was but in the search for extra performance…..

modification 5. the sponson extensions were tapered down hoping for same boyancy but increased speed etc.the result of which was… youve guested it back to nose diving syndrome again !!! looks like mod6 in the offing.

having put jet boat back in car, now time to test the BIG project 54 inch hull which previously with a rudder that i thought would be ok but was behaving far too sensitively to the point of over centering itself and jamming the servo any time an amount of rudder was applied when under modest power.

now with a smaller rudder and the rudder shaft located further forward on the rudder blade, a much better control was achieved, still a little twitchy if over enthusiastic with controls but i will reduce rudder throw and hopefully gain best compromise. now able to use full power on 7.2 volts good performance and handling etc a change to 11.1 volts and wow ! this is a flyer the size of the hull and planing at speed is i say myself ….. impressive, obviously once a superstructure is added,extra weight and wind resistance may tame this but i feel sure it will still be a good performer

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

pete. Did have a think that you might try the jey boat without the top on, to see if the superstructure and mesh entry ducting is impairing full thrust.?? I would try extending the side sponsons ahead of the bow, to give additional forrard bouyancy..they will lift off the water once it gets going and so not be as draggy as the width extensions.

Might it be also worth trying a jet deflector to alter the vertical thrust componment?

The big one is going to be a flyer and no mistake!!

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Tomorrow I am going to take the Herald and probably the Nelson out, but as i type the rain is beating on the window, so….

Had a bit of luck and the "action army" figures I ordered for No5 have turned up. I need a particular size and of course can`t get any at this size..however the ones just procured are ALMOST the right size, but need a bit of work. Will be alright for repelling boarders though, these chaps are armed to the teeth!

Wow the rain has just gone from beating to positively CHUCKING it down.!! better check I have not left anything outside. Shame because earlier when spraying the Action Figures with plastic primer , it was quite nice out.

Ashley

wow again…Funder and.lightning now!!

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Well well. SLB today. On me own. Got in 45 mins or so of HERALD action before rain stopped play. Shame as there was just enough breeze to almost sail by and it was going well.

Came home to fiddel with No5. I have finished painting the underneath now and have put the xxxxx on so I will need to be a bit careful with the paint and so on.

Have been connecting up the Action P94 and P107 twin ESC/Power board this afternoon, and playing close attention to keeping the plus signs to the red wires and the minus ones to the black. Not a lot of room, the Action items are relatively large and getting the wires to go where you want them is fiddly. i appear to have received a P94 Lite and this is just as well as the 20A version with its sticky up cooling fins would not have fitted and in any event I only have small motors so there is not an issue. The real issue is the battery is underneath this lot and so the items can not be held in place permanently. I might, as a ploy, keep one battery in there and charge it up in situe and thus not have to disturb everything.

My "action figures" have painted up really well having been sprayed all over with grey plastic primer and then a coat on No 80 Humbrol followed by flesh colour for faces etc; the No 80 is a different shade to ..other things..so that the chaps dont blend in too much. The vast amounts of armaments they are festooned with are not so noticeable now, and as a bonus the cheap and nasty hard crumbly plastic they are made from is just the stuff to carve and glue.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Quiz for all you fans.

I have had so make a couple of little hatches…and guess what I have used to make them with!!! no prizes.

This Sunday will be Herald again and Nelson. The DUCK is still broken, although my finger has recovered sensation now. If I can be bothered I may charge the 12v NIM and bring the lotus down, if it looks sunny.

I may even bring No5 down for a quick test if I get it painted up waterproof in time.

Ashley

[LARRY WHETTONParticipant @larrywhetton68737]

Ashley ,

8X4 X 1/4 Hardboard hooray …. Week end weather will be ideal for ducks ….

wet and windy……

see you are posting twice now to get the message across ……. cheers Larry….

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Larry, it is a strong message.

Yes it rather looks like that sort of weather.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

And today it looks like really nice weather!! bright blue skies, sun and loads of wind.

Have stuck most of the bits on proj No5 and what a difference! The proportions I was worried about have magically come good (or at least, better) and if the paint dries and the electrics work I will definitely chance a quick spin tomorrow.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Disappointment on the pond. Project No5, which I was expecting great things of..let down on the electronic front.

It did well though, and shows good promise especially with the novel xxxxx system, it even reverses which I had my doubts about. BUT will not steer. Looked great on the water and did everything else I wanted, and didnot leak (even better)

Other than that, the Herald was going well and the Nelson also got a sail after languishing in the car last week.

Barry had a surprise seaplane on the water when I got there, but it did what the Sunderland did when I had it out for its first trial..nose dived under power. I did not make mine to fly, but Barry`s is supposed to . so we all assumed that is was a chukkit and see, rather than a takeoff from water, shame (e-bay item).

Andy, Barry, Chris, Ian amd Trevor down today. Trevor had the Corvette again. I had my duff 12v SLA batteries, and I think that we managed to get the boat to the approx waterline, a bit of a relief for Trevor.

Trevor, The three 12v batteries and two six volt ones came to about 17Kg.(and then there was the 12v SLA drive batttery and about 4 2-pint milk containers filled with gravel) !!!! PLUS some lead sheet. wOW….

aSHLEY

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