Todays Boating

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Trevor

Storage space is a problem especially for larger models, after the event could you sell off the D Day monster build? (or do what I do and buy yet another shed)

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

shame, we need a boat design that tapers end-end and we could store a 20 foot boat like a russian doll..
A flat bottomed design would be the way to go for size and practical storage, and by that i mean a NO DRAUGHT bottom.
Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

I am not sure our pond could cope with something 20' long.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

As a landing craft LCM or LCT would be approx anything from 16 to 22 inches, or say 2 foot long, then a large vessel would have to be, I should think, say 6 feet long in order to look the part. This would look big compared to the people and single tank carriers, and this length would also give us the height for towering impressivness.

Two 3 feet sections (or a 4 foot and 2 foot )would be entirely manageable, and as Trevor has pointed out, anything too large will have an issue with manouverability if nothing else, unfortunately the landing stage is at the thinner wedge end of the pond and there will be (hopefully) a good number of craft wheeling about in perfect formation.

I have some large corrugated card boxes at home, I will cut some bits up to a likely size and see if it looks impressive enough. Realistically it only needs to be JUST big enough, as Paul has said (somewhere) to be the centrepiece of the parade.

Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

To my mind, a couple of 6' ships offshore laying down covering fire, an MTB wandering round as support and eight landing craft would have a fair effect – admittedly not the 6,000 craft actually involved but the pond is not that large.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Trevor. You may have it there. BUT I am sure we can muster much more than that, even simply from the wives/children/mistresses of our normal crew! Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have seen that an LCT mk2 or 3 would fit the bill, this is a largish craft but more of an LCM with curved sides than a ship with bow doors.

We happen to have some large card boxes at home and I have commandeered one to cut up and make a mock up.

As we need size and a joint somewhere, it looks like a 4 foot hull and an 18 inch rear would be ok. I have just about enough tanks,jeeps,trucks and a half track to make the well look busy, and the 18 inch rear allows machinery fit with no space probs. The width is approx 12 inches, giving an 8 inch well width and two inch fat sides, I think that 4mm ply should be fine, there is not much curve or sheer, and if the side pieces were cut with the outer grain running vertical instead of lengthways we should be in business. The rear as far as I can tell mirrors the front curvature, but i have not done any research yet.

It will be a flat bottomed craft, ie a waterline model, I should think about 1/2" draught or so. It would be nice to have a retractable drive arrangement for storage purposes?? will put thinking cap on.

I have it. A small recessed box could hold a universal joint, driven from inside by a short proshaft, sealed of course, and the driving propshaft could have a bolt-on arrangement, via a skeg with studs in, the splined end on the removable shaft would plug into the recessed u/j, be slid into place and the studs wingnutted from the inside. Rudder can just pull out, using a nylon tiller arrangement. Or I have some meccano gears?? Hmmm

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Many thanks for your reply, Ashley

A noble gesture indeed for the 70th anniversary!

Could I suggest a few profile Troop Carriers and Battleships well offshore with some stage type fog? Plus suitable sound effects

Then simply have a parade of period ships…….ie…….No mock battle as this would probably be a damp squib!

Will follow your progress with interest

Bob

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Bob

This D Day event sounds like a something that a club like Etherow could get involved in.

in fact it would be something that any model boat club could get behind as its fairly easy to organise and could be a very worthy money raising cause… the Royal British Legion Poppy Appeal springs to mind.

Ashley

Its time to start that separate thread so that clubs / people can get their acts together.

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. I will canvass the assemble throng tomorrow, assuming it is not pouring with rain.

My 5 1/2 foot card lct2 is impressive, no doubts about it!

Ashley

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Ashley

Are we going to see a photo of this cardboard mockup?

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have finished it in as much as I can get some idea as to the scale of things, and have splashed some grey paint on it. I need a half decent three view drawing to be getting on with, or some clearer pictures than I have found so far. It is not going to be a work of art mind, just a representation

It looks very feasable and is impressively large! I will fill it with some tanks, jeeps,carriers and a half-track to give an idea of scale etc and take a picture, but tomorrow now.

The basic landing craft works a treat, if its movement alongside the jetty is anything to go by, and with a 7.2Nim battery, tank deck and tank on board will be nicely even at the waterline. The 385 has plenty of oomph and the cheap 2mm shaft/40mm prop appears in this case to be quite adequate.

Not many there today, the weed is still present and I think thats why. I took the carpet carrier out again to stay in the boot, and only played with the BFB2..just as well as everyone who went out got weeded up. Trevor I do hope Pete recovered your tug with the rod and line?? Unfortunately I did try with the flying boat but the wind had got up making it impossible to steer the boats back to shore.

Yet another closet boater at the pond, and I talked to him about d-day and also a chap who comes down with his small son, he was quite keen, but has never built anything before. Get in on the action i said. What could be easier than what we are attempting? I dont mind cutting wood for anyone near, a moments work on the bandsaw to cut some 5 inch strips up that will give you most of the parts!

Pictures next week.

Ashley.

[Dave_PParticipant @dave_p]

Ashley,

I enjoy reading your boating reports they have helped me to regain the model boating bug.

Thanks

Dave

[Paul TParticipant @pault84577]

Careful Ashley

I don't mind cutting wood for anyone near, a moments work on the bandsaw to cut some 5 inch strips up that will give you most of the parts!

You might inadvertently start Needham Kits

Paul

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Paul. Kits…you know what I am building !!! Seriously, the chap with the small boy i thought may well “have a go” but then I realised that without a bandsaw there is a lot of cutting that would have to be done on large floppy sheets with a hand saw, and this would not be so easy. I think anyone who already builds boats would not see this as too much of an issue, but someone new to it might want a helping hand.

Dave. Fun, thats what it is all about.Just remember that. Build something that is fun. Ashley

Edited By ashley needham on 16/09/2013 08:06:43

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Tug was recovered soon after you left yesterday, the prop was not weeded up but there was a loose battery connection, so no power to the prop. No harm done.

The landing craft was indeed a fair representation, and would fit the bill.

Still researching for ships of 65 – 70 long with a few big guns to build with a big loud sound unit fitted to give that booming effect, I have a few ides for "safe" gun smoke too.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Trevor, dont forget that several types of landing craft were modified to become flak boats..some were even filled full to the brim with unguided rockets… Ashley

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

Ooo, unguided rockets – I like the sound of that (literally), I will do a bit of experimenting.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Have made the card mock up, and painted it. Will NOT post pictures (unless bullied) because it looks a bit naff in them, looks much better in the flesh. I will e-mail for those interested on a pm but they do not do the scale of the thing justice. I can see whats wrong with it now it is a three dimensional object and not a grainy black and white picture, and can also see some practical considerations that need to be addressed, bearing in mind this is a fit-in-the-car and cheap job and not a pukka 3 year scale project.

The original had three shafts and so must I…a must have item. Cheapness may dictate those 2mm shaft jobbies and 385`s again, but on 12v. It will be slow to be sure but the originals only made about 10 knots, on a calm day.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Ok, for those interested.. I have put three pics, no…snaps.. of the card LCT2 3 4 or whatever in my album.

I stress this as simply for me to see what I might be dealing with, and sorting out the general arrangements. I have not settled on a size or anything yet but the 5 1/2 foot length and 12 inch width looks ok. It looks VERY BIG on the carpet, and the pictures look a bit naff so sorry about that.

However I find this is a very useful tool, as already I can see whats wrong and whats right about the proposed design, It will in two bits, 4 feet and 18 inches (front and read sections. There are several things to consider for bolting up boats..and of course storage and transportation has to be considered..as well as making it a very large craft as the anchor for our D-day extravananza (possibly).

I know our lot, and a couple of them may well try and out size me….I know who you are..

Ashley

[The Long BuildParticipant @thelongbuild]

because it looks a bit naff in them !!

Looks good to me…

[Trevor HollowayParticipant @trevorholloway99134]

" I know our lot, and a couple of them may well try and out size me….I know who you are.."

Well, that would just make a more impressive display.

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I have replaced the LCT card mockup photos with more pictures showing a slightly more "modeled" version. I have altered the bow door aperture, cut 6 inches off the rear to give a better shape (more like an LCT4) and altered the rear deckhouses or superstructure if you will.

I also found a megga old tin of grey emulsion so it is a more uniform shade of grey. It doesnt look too bad now, and is shown on a force 4 sea alongside the "basic" LCM3, and also with the LFM.

Dimensions now of LCT are 5 feet by 1 foot. LFM is 4 feet by (I cant remember now) 8 inches I think and the lcm3 is 20 inches by a bit over 5.

I rather like the new superstructure and it looks reasonably accurate(ish) other than the rear deck is twice as long as it should be! I have seen a great picture of the real thing on a crane and the wow moment was the waterline…this in NOT parallel with the top deck, but slopes upwards front to rear…ie, when the craft is laden and moving along, the rear is lower than the front. this means that although I plan to do a flat bottomed boat, I can cut up the back by say 40mm and have my three props,,and these would be deep enough as the rear can be ballasted down. Some ballast may be needed at the front and this can be underneath the tank deck, if I raise the deck up by just one inch..plenty of room for a few old spanners or whathaveyou.

As to the width.. the LCT`s just got wider and shorter as the marks increased, and the MK5 was a fat thing indeed, and looks silly. It will also take up too much room at home, so 12 inches is fine. The side walkways need only to be an inch, down from the current two and so this will make the craft appear a bit wider in any event. The bow door is of course missing and this is flat on the inside and fairly curved on the outside. Not quite sure how far down the door went and so how high the hinge was and indeed what was under the hinge?? it must slope away as the craft was meant to beach itself? Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Also I have decided NOT to boat this Sunday. I have a feeling that the weed will still be there and that there will be low attendance, rightly, considering the bother we had last week (at least, I was ok,…) AND I am playing on Clapham common on the bandstand so need to be away early in any event.

I dont think many pond members have much in the way of airboats or hovercraft, and I know some have got them but they are laying in the loft gathering dust.

Ashley

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Whilst putting a second coat of grey on the "standard" lcm3, I have thought that there may be an issue with the tanks and soldiers to put on it.

An LCM should be very cheap to build, but I dont suppose there will be much enthusiasm for building a £35 tank kit to fit in it.

There are some cheaper alternatives, and if you look on E-bay for "CTS tank" in the toys/toy soldier section you will find some very passable 1/32 (BUT they come out more like 1/35) scale Shermans and Churchills.. not dear at £13 but postage on top.. so still adding up to more than the cost of building and LCM. Airfix British WW2 troops are only £6 or so.

I am not keen on populating all our fine British built LCM (or whatver) with American shermans, but it is a simple shape to make and i think I will have to have a go and see how easy it will be to make a passable landing craft filler. Usually I reach for the 4×2 and plywood, but this will be too heavy and so something else will have to be found. Styrofoam comes to mind. I will see what I can do.

http://WWW.theblueprints.com or similar is a good source of three view drawings, and I will print one off and see how it can be simplified, and if it looks good enough to use.

The sailors on my first LCM are "Lone*star" (old English manufacturer) sailors, and Toyway reissues can be found cheap enough.

Just as a heads up, the Airfix polythene 1/32 Cromwell tank is 20 x 9 by 7 cm long/wide/high.

Ashley

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