Exciting development!

[cass newlandParticipant @cassnewland62931]

Hi Bob, Peter T suggested I get in touch re the cable laying thing. Have a look at

 

http://atlantic-cable.com/Cableships/Faraday/

 

and

 

http://atlantic-cable.com/Cableships/Faraday(2)/index.htm

 

for good descriptions and close ups of cable laying machinery and layout. The photos are of the Faraday, which was purpose built so obviously not the same but it might help to decipher what was going on on the Great Eastern.

 

Otherwise, http://www.atlantic-cable.com/Cableships/GreatEastern/ is another good account (if you haven’t seen it, which you probably have).

 

Let me know if there are any questions I might be able to help with. Otherwise, praps see you up north? Think they’re looking at September time now.

 

Cass

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hello Cass

 

Thank you for the various links you`ve mentioned, but I have already seen these, but thank you, all the same

Mr T tells me you are a lady expert/historian on cable laying and will be present at the filming, I look forward to meeting you.

 

Bob

Edited By Bob Abell on 27/05/2011 17:33:44

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

Cass’s last link shows several stereoviews. Without a special viewer, it is quite possible to view those with a piece of A4 card and glasses to make you short-sighted. If you’re short sighted anyway, just take off your long glasses. If like me you’re long sighted, then wear reading glasses. Now sit close to the PC screen and hold the card vertically, the long dimension making a barrier between the bridge of your nose and the central border between the stereo photos. The idea is to make sure each eye sees only each photo. Now adjust your depth of focus until you see a single 3D image.

 

Just a shame there are no stereo views of the cable laying gear!

 

Mark

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thanks for that little ditty, Mark!

I`ll try it shortly

 

We used to have a few of those stereo viewers in my younger days…..Of course, they got dismantled for the lenses……..for burning holes through the Daily Herald!

 

The pond selection has now been changed for the fourth time!………For the better of course!

Didn`t realise how many model boat ponds we have in the Merseyside area!

 

Bob

[B BParticipant @bb42502]

Just goes to show what models can contribute to history that ha sbeen lost or forgotten.

Just goes to show that having built such a nice model has made it all worht while.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

The test described earlier is not quite right, having been updated by the TV boffins

Sorry chaps

 

The original cable laying exercise was indeed carried out in 1858……. before Great Eastern came on the scene

 

Two ships, each with a coil of cable, sailed from the UK and USA…..and they met in mid Atlantic. The cable was spliced together and power applied. ( Wonder how they managed that, being 1000 miles from land? )

Not knowing much about electricity in those early years…….The splice was burnt out!

 

The TV program will be repeating this, by splicing the wire in the middle of the pond

 

10 years later……..Great Eastern was modified and the cable was laid successfully.

 

I think the cables must have been live, during these cable laying exercises as they couldn`t get a message back to land to tell them to “switch on”!

 

There can`t have been much voltage being transmitted either and I suppose that`s why they had the delicate Galvanometer

 

Praps Ms Newland can tell us about this little mystery?………Come in Cass!

 

Sorry chaps……..This thread is for anoracks only!

 

Bob

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

Perhaps the power, or signal, was sent along the 1000 miles of cable they’d just laid?

If you have a pair of wires in the workshop and connect 12V between them, you get 12V at the other end. But over long distances, the voltage drops noticeably the longer the cable is due to the resistance of the wire, and the imperfect insulation between core and shield. So by the time you get to thousands of miles, you need a high voltage at one end to get a tiny signal at the other. Plus the cable acts as a capacitor, and one that long has a huge capacitance. So to get the voltage at the other end to change quickly, to send a usefully quick message, you need to apply a lot of current to charge up all that capacitance quikly. Inductance makes the signalling problem even worse, but I think I’ve made my point already.

 

Thankfully, over the model distances, these effects should not appear and it will be almost as good as a pair of short wires in the workshop.

 

Having laid good cable all across the lake with a sensational model, for someone to dredge it up half way and chop it in two, I think there’d be a tear in my eye!

 

Mark

PS – my anorak has real rabbit fur trim!

 

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Hi Mark

 

This thread is getting into deep water with all this techie stuff?…….Just bare with us chaps, this is interesting!

 

I read on the net that a message was sent from land to GE after a cable breakage, so the power was there.

 

The next question is…….where did the power come from?

 

Gotcha!……..Bob

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

Many modern electrical devices require separate power and signals. That’s because all the signal-processing circuits need power to operate. But in early telegraph, the power WAS the signal.

 

Imagine sending a signal from a battery, through a switch, along a long cable, to a light bulb. Pressing the switch sends a voltage signal down the wire and lights the bulb. That’s signal and power combined. In the case of such a long cable, you lose so much voltage that you need a big battery and a much more sensitive receiver than a bulb – hence the galvanometer.

 

So the power came from the sender. In the case of a message sent from land to GE, the signal power came from the land based transmitting station. Indeed, in those days telegraph power usually came from huge batteries, so GE most likely could have replied if it had a set of batteries on board.

 

Mark

(Not admitting defeat yet…)

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

There`s no catching you out, Mark!

 

They must have been very exciting inventing days in 1858!

When was battery electricary invented then?

 

Many thanx very much……for your very informative input to this techno thread!

 

Bob

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

Courtesy of Wikipedia: “The first electrochemical cell was developed by the Italian physicist Alessandro Volta in 1792, and in 1800 he invented the first battery, a “pile” of many cells in series.” So by the time it came to 1858, they were well established.

My father relates how old valve radios were run from 90 volt batteries. He was a practical joker and wired two in series (for 180v) and connected them to the metal loo seat (not so good in cold weather methinks), and was thoroughly punished after his mother sat on it!

Some of us still enjoy inventing Bob, I think that’s what you’re doing on this project.

 

Mark

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

View of lounge area in GE…..Note the square windows, therefore, this is the stern.

What an awesome grand sight!

 

Actually, this picture was posted, demonstrating the picture posting process to Duckie……He can`t get it to work on his PC for some strange reason?

Try again, Duckie

 

Bob

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

…and use Firefox, not Internet Explorer. Right campers?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

What are you on about?

 

Methinks you`re in the wrong shop?

 

Bob

[Mark Beard 1Participant @markbeard1]

On another thread, there are reports of problems using Internet Explorer on MB Forum. I just wondered if that was a problem with Duckie uploading pictures.

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thanks for that Mark

 

Problem sorted……Photograph titles was the problem

It used to catch me out too!

 

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

I cant find the reference, but I have a memory that the signals down one of these early cables was a reasonably high voltage.

 

I dont suppose that more than a few volts will be needed for yours!! Just a couple of old telephone handsets and a bycycle battery, or for effect a couple of vintage candlestick tele`s. like wot we used to use as kids..never sure it worked as the distances were too short and you could hear what was being said without a telephone anyway.

 

A thought had occurred to me that if this was my project I would have made a powered raft (as requiring minimal effort) and would have tested the cable laying out already, just in case.

 

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Thank you Ashley

 

I`ve every confidence that it will work, I may get acceptance of the sample wire next week, but still need to know which pond is going to be used in order to get the correct length of cable

The present intended pond is quite short at 50metres.

 

Bear in mind that when GE gets to the opposite shore…..all the wire on the drum will have to be unwound, for connection to the control box

 

Still got about 10 weeks before the filming……..Plenty of time

 

Bob

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

1858 1865 1866

 

These are the actual cables from Great Eastern days…………Awesome or what?

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Found this picture on the net

An early cable laying ship……..Could be 1858………But note the anti fouling guard around the prop and rudder area

One cable was so light, it had to be weighted down!

 

Bob

[ashley needhamParticipant @ashleyneedham69188]

Bob, I have no doubt whatsoever that it will lay the cable with no problems.

 

I think that getting it to look right might need a bit of fiddling with…and by that I mean look right for the camera, not technically right.

 

If I was you I would get the old video camera out and video all the trials to see what looks best, although i know you know that already. Eggs and grandmas etc etc.

 

I like the old (engraving?). one has to wonder how much artistic licence has been used, ?

 

A thing of wonder in the laying department has to be P.L.U.T.O… pipeline under the ocean (more artistic licence; PLUTC <hannel> I suppose doesnt have the same ring about it)… the adapted submarine cable laid across the channel to supply fuel to the Normandy landings and drive inland. Good presentation about this and an actual pump is to be found at Shanklin Chine and Sandown Zoo on the Isle of Wight.

 

Ashley

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

Don`t need to mention the video

 

Duckies a real expert at it……..Got them on YouTube too!

 

Here`s one of them…..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hBhWjQhDYc

 

Bob

[DuckyParticipant @ducky]

Hardly an expert Bob, its only my £69.99 Samsung Digital camera, but can you imagine turning up with it on the Great Eastern,would have prop-abell-y been burnt at the stake .

 

When the video camera first came out would have cost hundreds, but like everything else comes afford-abell in time.

 

 

[Bob Abell 2Participant @bobabell2]

I`ve seen cannons on GE pictures before………Were they ever used in anger? I ask myself. Might have a go at making a few?

Note the very small cable being spliced! The etching is dated 1865

[DuckyParticipant @ducky]

What about the cattle pens Bob, workers have to eat!, should be abell to get plenty of steers at the toy shops.

That brass from the museum is just burning a hole in your work top isn’t it, (The cannons will be no problem for you!)

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