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Resurgam Submarine

Tin Plate Static Diving

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Len Morris 113/02/2014 14:22:36
295 forum posts
259 photos

Hi everybody. I'm building a tinplate model of Resurgam. It makes for a nice model as it allows a 4 x 10 inch hatch giving plenty of access in a 30 inch hull (a type 7 would probably be some 6 feet long!). Main reason for the question is about plans, dimensions and detail. There only seems to be four reliable sources and even these are vague simply because of the definition. There are the two classic photographs side on and at 45 degrees, the plan and elevation drawings from Garrets patent and a line drawing from the Graphic newspaper. The Hardman static model and the Birkenhead replica are brilliant representations but miss some essential details. Would just like to discuss the matter with anybody interested. Just so you know my model is now well advanced and I'll post a picture if I can work out how to do it!

Regards to all,

Len

David Wooley13/02/2014 16:09:38
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Hi Len there is the small scale cutaway model at the Merseyside Maritime Museum and the full size replica at Woodside Ferry Birkenhead .There is also a detailed large scale model at the Williamson art Gallery ship collection and David French of the Model Submariners Association has built a working model . Which detail are you looking for ?

Dave Wooley

Paul T13/02/2014 16:40:46
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Hello Len

As Dave says there is quite a bit of information available for the Resurgam both on line and in archives and it would be a fairly easy job to retro-design the entire vessel.

Paul

Len Morris 114/02/2014 01:32:34
295 forum posts
259 photos

Thanks Dave and Paul for your replies. Very kind. The devil is in the detail! Did she have a four blade prop or a three blade prop? The Woodside Ferry replica has quite 'aerodynamic ' hydroplanes whilst the original photos show them to be flat plates. The outer wooden casing is very sculptured in the replicas but not substantiated by the original photographs. The patent drawings (which I used for my model) show the hydroplane shaft running straight through the hull in plan view. In elevation, this would put the shaft straight through the middle of the boiler! I fully agree there is a lot of information about Resurgam but it tends to be the same old thing and not very good when interrogated. For example history tells us that prior to sailing she undertook diving trials in the dock. How? Resurgum dived dynamically, not easy to do in a dock! Nothing seems very clear on this job and I welcome any comment.

Best Regards,

Len

Paul T14/02/2014 11:16:56
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Hello Len

Firstly can we confirm that we are discussing Resurgam 2 in which case contemporary photographs show that the vessel had a four bladed propeller.

Without further detailed research I cant answer the question regarding the hydroplanes however a brief look at the elevation drawing would lead me to assume that some kind of offset gearing system had been designed to manipulate the diving planes.

A mechanically operated geared system working in the spaces on either side of the boiler would be the most obvious solution especially when you consider the amount of pressure being exerted on the control surfaces.

resurgam2.jpg

Regarding the testing of the vessel, this took place in Liverpools Great Float (not a dock) the Great Float accounts for most of the Liverpool / Wirral shore lines and covers an area of 110 acres so there is plenty of vertical and horizontal space within which to test a small dynamic diving boat (see pic)

great float.jpg

I hope this helps with your build

Paul

Edited By Paul T on 14/02/2014 11:39:41

David Wooley14/02/2014 11:32:47
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597 forum posts
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Hi Len have you access to the book Farther of the Submarine by William Scanlan Murphy published by William Kimber and co limited ISBN 0-7183-0654-6,. many of your questions are explained in that book . Also some years ago I visited the launch site in Wallasey dock of the Resurgam which still exists including the slewing ring for the crane and yes diving trials in the dock were undertaken.

Dave Wooley

Len Morris 119/02/2014 00:07:36
295 forum posts
259 photos

Hi Paul and Dave, thanks for all that . It's kind of you to comment. Now some food for thought. Not convinced about the four blade prop. Does anybody have a clear photograph? Resurgam's internals are not an issue from a model building point of view (because I'm certainly not clever enough to try installing a steam engine!), but, when plans don't stack up you start to question them. The longitudinal illustration you kindly sent me Paul is the classic from the old literature. If you look at the cross-section illustrations belonging to the same diagram you'll see that the view in front of the boiler shows considerable wood cladding on the hull whereas it should just be an inch of steel plate! I question old magazine illustrations very carefully and prefer to believe in photographs (at least back then they didn't have photoshop)! As regards initial trial dives I am convinced Garret would have done these statically in the Wallasey dock with his ballast tank. It consumes half his submarine. Its the Boiler!

As regards the wooden cladding, the Birkenhead replica and classic models seem far too sculptured on the shoulders above the hydroplanes compared with the available photographs. Wonder what you think?

Now at stage of ballast, flotation and stability trials in the 'Great Colne Bathroom Dock'. Some pictures posted (hopefully) Len

Bob Abell19/02/2014 08:08:41
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8214 forum posts
2519 photos

Hello Len

I hope you don't mind me posting this?.......The only connection with your thread is that it is a submarine story and my model looked like the Resurgam!

I once made a tin plate submarine, from three tin cans soldered together, end on, with an Andrews Liver salts tin for the conning tower

I got the design from a Boy's Own mag in 1953.....I was only 16 then

Underneath was a non return valve which let water out via a rear pointing tube.....but not in

At the top of the hull, was a float valve, which let water in, but not out

In the conning tower was a wire basket, in which was placed a block of Calcium Carbide

The sub was placed in the bath which settled down, letting water in, via the top valve, until the water reached the Carbide!

Carbide and water don't like each other and a high pressure gas is produced!

The pressure closed the inlet valve and forced the water out of the sub, through the bottom pipe which propelled the sub forward

When the inside water level had dropped below the carbide block, the reaction stopped and water entered the sub once more, through the top valve

The cycle was repeated.....Clever?...eh?

Did it work?......Don't know.....Carbide was not on sale anymore!.....Doh!

Thank you, Len

Bob

David Wooley19/02/2014 12:33:44
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597 forum posts
702 photos
8 articles

Hello Len according to Garrett's own notes Resurgam was cladded with timber amidships as per the model at Birkenhead and as Paul has mentioned the Resurgam was fitted with a 4 bladed propeller but the original was removed and it is not clear whether the replacement was 3 or 4 blades . In the past I have found the patent office in Liverpool an amazing place to source information . If you are inclined to visit the office in William Brown street you will not be disappointed but be prepared to spend some time sifting through the various publications of the time and the patents. best of luck

Dave Wooley

Bob Abell19/02/2014 17:40:48
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8214 forum posts
2519 photos

Hello Len

Is this of any use?

It shows a four bladed pro

Bob

resurgam.jpg

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